Important: Latest News about labels

[hardflex]

I think I'll weigh in on this one.

A few years ago, when Gill was mailing labels to people to correct for their new 'best flex' system, I called the High School federation for a clarification on this label rule. They told me at the time that they PREFERRED the Altius labeling by engraving because it was permanent, so Altius continued with the PREFERRED method.

I would bet that most officials, when they read the rule, take the 'label' as a noun, something that is attached on the pole. But label can also be a verb, the act of marking the pole. Therefore the 'manufacturers labe' would the be act by the manufacturer of labeling (engraving) the poles. And I would argue that point with any official who tried to disqualify my poles.

The last thing this sport needs is for thousands of perfectly serviceable poles to be tossed aside because of a 25 cent label.

[rainbowgirl28]

The last thing this sport needs is for thousands of perfectly serviceable poles to be tossed aside because of a 25 cent label.

Amen

[Vaultref]

Mr hardflex... if that is what they (The NF) told you then you better get that in writing as that is not what they told all the state interpreters who attended their January meeting. That disturbs me.

I've read the new rule, I listened to what our state interpreter said that has to be done in person and in his state wide issued document.
It's clear to me... your pole must have a label and if it does not, return the pole for re-certification and it will
get a label..

I've seen these Altius poles over the years, every one required the coach or official to put a homemade label using the technique explained to us years ago. We've terminated that practice as of this year because the NF has official stated to the interpreters to stop hand labeling poles. That was never communicated to officials in any formal manor until this year. Those days are over.
Etchings alone are no longer sufficient, especially those pencil thin Altius etchings that are not or were not at least 0.75 inches in a contrasting color .. that is in the rule now. Haven't seen any recently, so maybe they changed. I'd have to see each pole on a case by case basis before I determine it's legality.

The last thing an official wants to do is to disqualify a pole from competition, but your 25 cent label issue could easily become a 2.5 million dollar law suit should some athlete get hurt on your watch as the slick lawyers start nit pick the poor official to death for not enforcing the rule despite the fact that the problem was caused by arrogance and stupidty of the athlete or coach for using a pole not legal per NF rules.

I'm not going to lose my house because some coach didn't check his pole inventory is 100% NFHS legal. I as an official shouldn't even be in the loop, but we are and that's why some of us take a hard line on this issue.

There's a pending lawsuit going on right now in a sectional area near me. They are not allowed to discuss the case at the moment, but every one and everyone's uncle involved with that meet are being dragged into court and being sued for some unspecified amount because of a vaulters injury. If they show that pole was illegal for that vaulter, that official better have some insurance as he's toast. I speak for a whole lot of other officials, "that ain't gonna happen to me".

[Robert schmitt]

I'm not disagreeing with you vault ref the rules are the rules and we need to follow them and I understand your concern of legal issues and following the rules.

That said this is a stupid rule that doesn't improve safety and costs programs money if you have to pay for labels and ship poles back. People can still create false labels if they really want to. labels wear off, fade and can become altogether illegible. The engraving is hard to alter and pernament. Besides the flex number is what is important not the weight rating I have poles I bought over the past 9 years old the maufacteres flex rating and corresponding weight ratings are all over the place. between best flex and pre best flex. I have a altius 12'4" 145 that we got in 2001. Last year I bought a 12'4" .2 flex on either side of it and on was rate 160 and the other 175. So my Girls progression of 12'4" poles is 140#, 160#, 145#, 175# all a .2-.3 flex increase in between them...which is another issue but still ticks me off.

Any way I just sent off for my 29 labels yeah....

[CowtownPV]

I'm not disagreeing with you vault ref the rules are the rules and we need to follow them and I understand your concern of legal issues and following the rules.

Any way I just sent off for my 29 labels yeah....

Same here but why keep making stupid rules that effect the pole vault. No bungee in warm up. Most coaches use a bungee just to help check standard settings in warmup and it gives the vaulter a visual tool to help them know how much they have penetrated. NFHS says they must go. Our Altius poles have length, weight and flex carved into the pole and written over with a black permanent marker but thats not good enough? Give anybody a printer and they can make a label that says anything. What are you going to do, flex the pole there at the meet? Don't say you will refer to the etchings because NFHS says they are "a code to the manufacturer". I realize that the safety chairman probably thinks the company he works for has the best system for marking poles but I disagree. Maybe it will be like last years rule on leaving the ground isn't an attempt which they have come back this year and said it is. "It is a foul if a vaulter leaves the ground in an attempt " but leaving the ground not in a attempt is not an attempt. Who is on first?

[hardflex]

Vaultref, as I said, that was told to me when Gill implemented the 'bestflex' . That would make it mid to late 90's when it was told to me.

From an online dictionary definition.

Verb 1. label - assign a label to; designate with a label;


[b]denominate, designate - assign a name or title to
mark, tag
mark - make or leave a mark on;
[/b]

That is the point I would argue, that the engravings on the pole are in fact the manufacturer's 'label'

Boy, I hate to think of the conflicts brewing on this rule.



Robert I'd be interested in the exact flex numbers of the series you describe. 124140's and 145's should be in the high 6's flex wise, a 175 would be in the 5's.

[Robert schmitt]

I hit the wrong key her series is 140, 150, 145, 160, 175. I would love to get your input on this. B?C I ordered the 160 and 175 based on flex # not weight with Tim Riely telling me .5 flex = 5lbs. I think I ended up with .6 between them I'll have to check. The 12'4" 145 went missing this week but I have the flex info on my old hard drive and I will try to get it off of there if the pole doesn't show up this week.

[PVJunkie]

The thing I find most interesting about all of this is that this has been a rule for over 8 years (hand written weights went out at least that long ago).....many coaches/athletes either dont read the rule book or have chosen to ignore it. NOW that the NFHS has made it a point of emphasis it is a "new rule". As I pour over the 20 - 40 new requests a day I am amazed at how little many coaches and officials know about the rules of this event. I carry a rule book in my back pocket to every high school meet I go to (my son is a freshman) just in case i run into that "i heard it so it must be true" official/coach/athlete. I carry a NCAA rule book (the pv section) when I go to college meets. It is my duty as a coach and athlete to know the rules. I am making a assumption that if you are a member of this board you love this event and are here to gain knowlege, share knowledge or both (I am in the both catagory even as a 27 year veteran) about this event. That said, KNOW the rules. Get a HS/NCAA/USATF/IAAF rule book and read it. Wich ever one applies to you. Then once you know the rules as they are, if you do not agree with them you can work to change them and this is the perfect forum to do so.

Get your replacement label request in EARLY....the season has started or is about to start.

I championed the Altius engraved "label" with the NFHS when all of this was being discussed (check with Eric Morell). I spoke at the Jan meeting referred to earlier. Their engraved weight label met the rule as was written UNTIL they no longer allowed etchings to verify the weight rating....but they do allow the etchings to verify the length (search "cutting poles" on this site). My guess is that they want a "sticker" so that NEW info would allow OLD poles to work BETTER for the end user....YOU. Best flex is a perfect example of that. If new research changes how a pole is rated under a standard test for the BETTER why would you as the end user have to suffer with OLD TECHNOLOGY. Its a FREE (mentioned as a .25 sticker) update so long as the NFHS allows the company to make it under the rules. Would you rather jump/inventory a 150 that should be a 155 or get a new label? That question seems to answer itself.

[Robert schmitt]

The thing I find most interesting about all of this is that this has been a rule for over 8 years.............

then you say....

I championed the Altius engraved "label" with the NFHS when all of this was being discussed (check with Eric Morell). I spoke at the Jan meeting referred to earlier. Their engraved weight label met the rule as was written UNTIL they no longer allowed etchings to verify the weight rating.

You contradict your self if this rule has been in place for 8 years why do you refer to the etching rule being changed in Jan?

Would you rather jump/inventory a 150 that should be a 155 or get a new label?

Yes, I would love to but...I was told by the manufacturer that I had to ship my poles in to get them re-certified for a different weight rating under different flex systems. This would wipe out any cost savings over buying a new pole

[Robert schmitt]

Ok I put my hard drive in as a slave and got my list. the list does not have the 160 or 175 on it as I bought those last year and never added them before the mother board fried. I'll get them tomorrow at the meet.

12'4" 140 6.85
12'4" 150 6.45
12'4" 145 6.3

And my labels just came woohooo........

[AVC Coach]

My question is this.....If an official questions the authenticity of a new weight label that's been placed on an old pole, won't he have to ckeck the etchings to make sure that label is correct?

[PVJunkie]

The thing I find most interesting about all of this is that this has been a rule for over 8 years.............

then you say....

I championed the Altius engraved "label" with the NFHS when all of this was being discussed (check with Eric Morell). I spoke at the Jan meeting referred to earlier. Their engraved weight label met the rule as was written UNTIL they no longer allowed etchings to verify the weight rating.

You contradict your self if this rule has been in place for 8 years why do you refer to the etching rule being changed in Jan?

Would you rather jump/inventory a 150 that should be a 155 or get a new label?

Yes, I would love to but...I was told by the manufacturer that I had to ship my poles in to get them re-certified for a different weight rating under different flex systems. This would wipe out any cost savings over buying a new pole

A sticker and an etching are not the same thing physically. The rule has been in place for over 8 years what has changed is that the NFHS no longer allows the weight label to be an engraving. Since the majority of the poles in the market do not engrave the wt in the size required by the rule and many coaches/athletes and officials were using them they were banned (an educated guess).

IF the test is the same then no you do not have to send your poles in. A large # of poles increased in weight thanks to data gained through researh using the same test. If the test changes the no you cannot just mail a sticker to update the pole.....it must be tested under the new system. In that case it is a new test not a new rating system under the same test. Sending poles back to be recertified would wipe out cost savings over buying a new pole? I am confused, every coach/athlete who has done this praises the cost savings of recerting a few poles....find they have safe useful poles that normally they would not have used.