Weighing vaulters....

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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby AVC Coach » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:12 am

I like it as long as it is intended to be in place of and not in addition to the current weight rating rule.

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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby lonestar » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:31 am

dheldr01 wrote:The only way to get rid of the weight rating rule it to mandate all schools and event officials pass a pole vault certification test to ensure they know the proper procedures for an athlete using the right size pole. I think any pole vault coach should atleast have the basic knowledge of how to watch for an athletes overbending, pulling the top end of the pole down, not getting deep enough into the pit and getting to deep into the pit as well as the knowledge to change poles and lower grips and improve technique to solve those problems.


Agreed :yes:

Still, even coaching certification won't get rid of the risk-taking idiot coaches who will put the standards on 15.5", grip their kids at the top of a pole a foot too long and stiff for them, and hope that some miracle of wind and fiberglass will get their kids past the crossbar. I've met too many coaches that know it all... unfortunately education is wasted on them, not that it shouldn't be mandated. That's where the 3-Strikes Boundary Rule would force them into having to make safer decisions with regards to grip and pole selection.
Last edited by lonestar on Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby lonestar » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:35 am

AVC Coach wrote:I like it as long as it is intended to be in place of and not in addition to the current weight rating rule.


Yes! Agreed! :yes:
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby pursuit16 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:11 pm

whats everyones opinion on holding down (maybe about a foot from the top) on a pole that could be 3-5 pounds lower than the vaulters weight, just as a transition to start working onto longer poles. Often, and I know in my case, i'll move up length when im vaulting on poles 20lbs over my weight. Ill match grips and move up(i.e. from a 14' 165 to a 15' 145) But sometimes my weight will vary, anywhere from 145 to 150. thoughts?

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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby lonestar » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:31 pm

pursuit16 wrote:whats everyones opinion on holding down (maybe about a foot from the top) on a pole that could be 3-5 pounds lower than the vaulters weight, just as a transition to start working onto longer poles. Often, and I know in my case, i'll move up length when im vaulting on poles 20lbs over my weight. Ill match grips and move up(i.e. from a 14' 165 to a 15' 145) But sometimes my weight will vary, anywhere from 145 to 150. thoughts?


1. Are you landing in the middle of the pit on all of these poles? If yes, then who gives a rat's a** what the weight rating says on it?

2. Are you overbending any of them? (I consider overbending when the top 1/3 or "handle" of the pole is bending over more than parallel to the runway and/or you are sinking after takeoff prior to rising. If no, then I repeat: "Who gives a rat's a** what the weight rating says on the pole?
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby lonestar » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:35 pm

If we really want to enforce a weight rating rule, try doing it to Master's Vaulters... with few "elite" exceptions, I'm willing to bet more than 50% or more compete or at least train with pole rated under their body weight. How many master's deaths are reported each year in pole vaulting due to vaulting on poles under their body weight??? Has there EVER been one reported?

Another example: I coach an 89 year old pole vaulter. He vaults 6'0-7'0 on a good day. He jumped 7'0 in a meet a year ago and the Outdoor World Record for Age 85-89 is 7'4.25", and the Indoor World Record is 8'0. The World Outdoor Record for Age 90+ is 4'8.25", and the Indoor WR is 5'11.5"

He's currently vaulting on a 10' 125 and weighs 185. He doesn't bend the pole more than 20 degrees for 4 reasons:

1) He uses the old model of vaulting where he slides his bottom hands up to a closed or narrow grip thus taking the levering action of the bottom arm out of the equation.
2) He's very slow.
3) He grips a foot down from the top, thereby increasing the relative stiffness/weight rating 20lbs
4) This so-called 10' 125 was manufactured around 2000... since then the flex charts and subsequent weight-rating systems have been "adjusted" by most if not all manufacturers. The current weight rating on this pole by the same manufacturer would be 160lbs. Holding a foot down makes it the relative equivalent of about a 9' 180.

Should we take this pole away from this WWII veteran, multiple National Senior Games Champion, and potential age-group world record holder because it's under his body weight? You try being the official that tells him he can't use "his" pole, but make sure you're wearing a helmet when you do because the pole's durability might be tested across the top of your head!
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby birdi_gurlie » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:54 pm

lonestar wrote:4) This so-called 10' 125 was manufactured around 2000... since then the flex charts and subsequent weight-rating systems have been "adjusted" by most if not all manufacturers. The current weight rating on this pole by the same manufacturer would be 160lbs. Holding a foot down makes it the relative equivalent of about a 9' 180.

Should we take this pole away from this WWII veteran, multiple National Senior Games Champion, and potential age-group world record holder because it's under his body weight? You try being the official that tells him he can't use "his" pole, but make sure you're wearing a helmet when you do because the pole's durability might be tested across the top of your head!



One of the dads on the team is trying to vault with an old black catapole; a 180 or 185 or 175 or something. How much would that change though? (Now, granted, it's a 14' pole and he's holding at what, 9 feet, so he's not going to bend it, but it is an interesting thought.)
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby CowtownPV » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:56 pm

1. Are you landing in the middle of the pit on all of these poles? If yes, then who gives a rat's a** what the weight rating says on it?

2. Are you overbending any of them? (I consider overbending when the top 1/3 or "handle" of the pole is bending over more than parallel to the runway and/or you are sinking after takeoff prior to rising. If no, then I repeat: "Who gives a rat's a** what the weight rating says on the pole?[/quote]

Very well said, where they are landing is much more important and things like pole length, grip ht, speed, and technique determine that just as much as the weight does.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby Bubba PV » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:39 pm

First, lonestar is my coach, so he's preaching to the choir with me. I've been vaulting since I was 12 and I'm now 58. He's my coach because I believe there are areas he certainly knows more than me. This subject is one of them.

I personally jump in practice all of the time on poles below my weight but I'm also gripping down and running from only 6-10 total steps (not strides). I feel like I'm a pretty good technician because I can get so many more vaults in this way without the same risk of injury. When I move up poles and move my run back, then my progress is magnified.

On the bell curve of life, masters vaulters are the equivalent of middle school and high school vaulters in the heights we jump, and we are MUCH safer. My biggest fear is that you get the landing zone AND the weight requirement stays. Thanks for all of your efforts to bring sanity and affordability back to the sport. Bubba
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:44 pm

Unfortunately, there's very little chance that the NFHS will ever drop the weight rating rule. Their lawyers would never let them do that.

I agree 100%, I would LOVE to see some sort of three strikes rule and get rid of the weight rating, but the most likely scenario if this was pushed for is that you would end up with both rules. I don't think the manufacturers would be willing to tell the NFHS that it is safe for anyone to use a pole under their weight, even though they all know it is safe under certain conditions.

I think some manufacturers would be willing to consider allowing for their pole to have additional weight labels if you gripped lower, but I kind of doubt we could get a consensus there.

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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby Vaultref » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:31 am

Now that would be an interesting concept...
Additional handhold bands and weight ratings on poles every foot or so down a pole.
I could go along with that. All we need is for a manufactuer to offer it.

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Re: Weighing vaulters....

Unread postby vaultdad » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:08 pm

Vaultref wrote:Now that would be an interesting concept...
Additional handhold bands and weight ratings on poles every foot or so down a pole.
I could go along with that. All we need is for a manufactuer to offer it.


Actually, I think this has been offered in the past so the question might be if manufacturers will offer it again?

AS far as the weight rule goes, IMHO it's a joke. If everyone was punished equally by it, it would just be annoying. But as it is, I see far too many girl's coaches putting someone
who weighs 140-150# on a 110 to 115 pound pole so they get "a big bend". I've personally seen this. At one high school meet ( which i was an observer at), a coach put a girl on a 110# pole and told her he had a 100# pole as a backup if she didn't get enough bend. She actually weighed 142#, so the coach lied when he signed her paperwork. But, it was good for pole sales because she came in under and snapped that Gill pole like a twig into multiple pieces. To add insult to injury, she broke another one at the state track meet a month later.
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