Weighing vaulters....

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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby Lax PV » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:09 pm

Robert schmitt wrote:We have 47 poles. The 12'4" and 13'3" are for sure the most vital poles for the beginers.
we have roughly our series looks like
10'6" 115
11'4" 115-140
12'4 110-175
13'3" 130-185
14'3" 140-200
14'9" 165-185


You have some very stiff, short poles.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby rainbowgirl28 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:42 pm

In part because that's what Robert himself uses :)
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby Robert schmitt » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:31 am

That is true :D ..I bought the 14'3 190,195,200 and 14'9 185. The only pole one of the HS kids has not used at some point is the 200 though. I actually have a girl on the the 12'4" 160 thru 175. she weighs 140. She just doesn't vault as well on the 13'3" yet... holding the same grip.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby Lax PV » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:18 pm

Robert schmitt wrote:That is true :D ..I bought the 14'3 190,195,200 and 14'9 185. The only pole one of the HS kids has not used at some point is the 200 though. I actually have a girl on the the 12'4" 160 thru 175. she weighs 140. She just doesn't vault as well on the 13'3" yet... holding the same grip.


That's awesome--your athletes are lucky to have such a great pole selection. :yes:
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby xxartanisxx » Sun May 02, 2010 12:54 am

The weight rule has been primarily put in for stupid coaches lol...

There was a kid who was a TINY stick for that kid he would been the pole so the tip would end up about 2 feet away from the rest of it and then fly up... He ended up flying into the standards and it looked like he got clotheslined... It was hilarious.

Ended up clearing 11' 6" that day then came down and hit the crossbar with my nose and bled all over everything haha. Stuck a wad of tape up there and missed the next height.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby master » Sun May 02, 2010 2:22 am

xxartanisxx wrote:The weight rule has been primarily put in for stupid coaches lol...

There was a kid who was a TINY stick for that kid he would been the pole so the tip would end up about 2 feet away from the rest of it and then fly up... He ended up flying into the standards and it looked like he got clotheslined... It was hilarious.

Ended up clearing 11' 6" that day then came down and hit the crossbar with my nose and bled all over everything haha. Stuck a wad of tape up there and missed the next height.

xxartanisxx, it would appear you are a newcomer; at least to posting. It might be prudent for you to temper your posts just a little until you are a little familiar with the quality of information that is available from many people on this forum. It's fine to have opinions, but better to present them in a mature fashion. And by the way, there is nothing hilarious about a vaulter getting into a physically dangerous situation. Yes, those are just opinions also, but ones I have given considerable thought to over the years.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby KirkB » Sun May 02, 2010 3:19 pm

master wrote: ... xxartanisxx, it ... might be prudent for you to temper your posts just a little until you are a little familiar with the quality of information that is available from many people on this forum. It's fine to have opinions, but better to present them in a mature fashion. ...

:yes:

master wrote: ... there is nothing hilarious about a vaulter getting into a physically dangerous situation.

VAULTER SAFETY IS JOB ONE! :yes:

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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby dheldr01 » Thu May 06, 2010 1:51 pm

The only way to get rid of the weight rating rule it to mandate all schools and event officials pass a pole vault certification test to ensure they know the proper procedures for an athlete using the right size pole. I think any pole vault coach should atleast have the basic knowledge of how to watch for an athletes overbending, pulling the top end of the pole down, not getting deep enough into the pit and getting to deep into the pit as well as the knowledge to change poles and lower grips and improve technique to solve those problems.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby lonestar » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:09 pm

Question: What do a 10' 150, 10'6 140, 11' 130, 11'6 120, 12' 110, and 12'6 100 have in common?

Answer: They're all the same pole.

Well, not exactly, but if you were to flex test all of those poles on the same scale, they could theoretically all have the same flex number (ie: stiffness).

What does that mean exactly?

Well, if you grip the 12'6 100 at the top, the pole offers relatively 100lbs of resistance.
If you grip the same 12'6 100 at 12'0, if offers relatively 110lbs of resistance.
Grip it at 11'6, you get 120lbs of resistance.
11'0 grip = 130lbs of resistance.
10'6 grip = 140lbs of resistance.
10'0 grip = 150lbs of resistance.

Now if I were a pole manufacturer, I'm lickin' my chops. Why? Because I can sell THE SAME F-IN POLE to the same school SIX TIMES and make 6 times the profit than if I sold them the 12'6 100 one time.

What's better? All 6 poles are only one size pole. If your average school needs roughly 10 different stiffnesses in their arsenal (not near enough BTW), but have such a range of vaulters in body weight to accomodate, then theoretically in this example you could sell 60 poles instead of 10! Money money money moneeeeeee, money!

OLD SCHOOL VAULTERS FROM THE 60's: remember the Thermoflex labels? They listed how high you could hold on the pole according to how much you weighed. Only a 40+ year old idea that didn't make pole companies a lot of money.
Last edited by lonestar on Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby lonestar » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:12 pm

Don't like that one? How about this instead...

What do the following poles have in common?

11'5 80
11'6 110
11'6 120
11'6 127

They all hit the same exact flex on my flex machine. What's the difference? The way each company rated them because they are all of a different manufacturer yet they all flexed within .2 of each other on the same scale.

So let's enforce a weight rating rule when there's not even a standard for rating the poles. I should start a pole company and rate all my poles 20lbs stiffer than their equivalents in other brands. Bet I'd make a lot of money at the high school and middle school level!
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby lonestar » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:19 pm

OR... pass a rule that actually makes sense and works to enhance safety?!?!

THANK YOU JAN!

I HIGHLY endorse this new rule proposal as a common-sense and low-cost approach to increasing safety in the pole vault. If you're not aware, 3 vaulters were killed in practice and/or meets in 2002 while pole vaulting, spurring on a series of attempts to make the sport safer including increasing the minimum dimensions of landing systems, requiring box collars and standard base padding, r&d on making "soft" plant boxes, new designs on box collars, and pole vault-specific helmets. Prior attempts at increasing safety included having manufacturers place maximum handhold bands at or near the top of vaulting poles and weight-rating labels and verification of vaulter's body weights to the poles they are to use. All of these actions were intended to increase/enhance safety in the pole vault at primarily the high school level, however in my professional opinion, many simply made the sport cost-prohibitive, tedious to administer at competitions, and created other safety issues for beginner level vaulters. This is the first rule that would address the crux of the problem: controlling the vaulter's trajectory and/or landing. I truly hope that it will gain support.

Kris Allison
Lone Star Pole Vaulting
New Braunfels, TX


Jan Johnson's Pole Vault Safety and Technique News Letter - Issue #1 - 2012

Sky Jumpers Vertical Sports Club
Pole Vault Safety Certification Board
Atascadero, California

By using the following system for practice and meets we can bring greater attention to landing in the center of the pads. Associations and schools which choose to enforce such a rule will bring more safety to their facilities.

Pole Vault Caution Zone Proposal
By using the following system for practice and meets we can bring greater attention to landing in the center of the pads. Associations and schools which choose to enforce such a rule will bring more safety to their programs and facilities.

Purpose:
To improve pole vault safety by bringing greater attention to landing in or near the middle of the landing system by penalizing vaulters who land too close to the edges or in front of the zero line. This rule effectively minimizes most of the classic dangerous jumps as outlined below.
Benefits:
*This rule would help to reduce wild and out of control jumps by penalizing the participant.
*Simple and easy to enforce.
*Low cost
*The markings we recommend will also allow coaches and vaulters to better judge the position of the landing system in relation to the plant box, and also allows a general view of the position of the standards relative to the zero line.
Costs:
Any landing system may be marked with a tape measure and a can of spray paint in about 10 minutes time. (see example below)

Below: Suggested Caution Zone markings (red outside lines) 15' wide and 14.5' deep starting at zero. In fact the caution box is approximately the same size as the old minimum pole vault landing system specification pre 2003.


Suggested wording for safe landing zone rules
During the course of competition, In the completion of a pole vault jump, the vaulter must land so that upon first contact of his or her body including head, arms, hands, legs and feet must be within a 15' wide x 14.5" caution zone box clearly marked on top of the landing surface. It is suggested that the box is marked using 2-3" wide lines of a contrasting color, so that the inside dimensions of the zone meet the 15'x14'6" standard safety zone dimensions. The size of the safety zone area should be standard for all landing pads. The front edge of the safety zone shall be between 3" and 6" behind the zero line as defined by the top of the strike plate at the back of the planting box.

We recommend that vaulters who during the course of making an attempt must land within the boundaries of the safe zone, or be awarded a caution flag, and a miss. The score keeper shall in make a record of all caution flags on the score board. The vaulter must land within the safety zone as described above for a successful clearance. Vaulters who land on or outside of the safety zone after clearing the bar shall be awarded a caution flag and a miss for the attempt. Additionally, the vaulter must exit the front of the landing pads between the standards under control for the completion of a successful attempt, or be awarded a caution flag and a miss. .
A maximum of two caution flags are allowed during the course of a contest with elimination from the contest on the third. The vaulters best height cleared will be used as his/her final mark.
Three consecutive misses will remain as the other way the vaulter may be eliminated from a contest.
Examples of dangerous vaults which would result in caution flags

* Any vaulter landing on or in front of the front edge of the safety line nearest the plant box.
* Any vaulter landing where first contact with the pads is touching any portion of the safety zone lines, with any body part.
* All vaulters landing in the plant box.
* All vaulter landings upon the standard base padding.

* All hand slips resulting in landings in or around the plant box area, where the vaulter makes contact in front of, or on the front line of the safety zone.
Notes:
Broken poles will not be awarded caution flags and are not counted as attempts as has always been the case in the rules.
It is suggest that standard placement and cross bar personnel should participate as front line observers and confer with the head official. The head official will have final approval of any cautions entered on to the score card.

For more information contact Jan Johnson
jan@skyjumpers.com
805-423-2363
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Re: Weighing vaulters....

New postby birdi_gurlie » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:21 pm

That would actually make sense. I've seen numerous people here holding too high on poles too long. I know I'm only a newbie coach and I'm not usually the athlete's coach but if it's a major safety concern and it happens numerous times, I try to politely mention it. I know it can be rude but I'd rather be slightly rude than have someone get a month out due to a concussion or worse. I've seen too many people holding too high on poles too big and it scares me every time they vault. It's frustrating.
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