Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Thu May 09, 2013 4:03 pm

botakatobi wrote:I have heard that state HS associations make rule changes different from NFHS.


They _can_ but it is rare. Usually variances are "just the way things are done here."

In Washington, our only change to NFHS rules is that javelins must have rubber tips.

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby ClintonMagus » Fri May 10, 2013 4:26 pm

NEVaultFan wrote:These coach's know the rules and read up on them every year.


Last weekend, I had a coach argue me down about the new 18-inch standards rule. He said that he had been to all of the rules meetings, and this was never mentioned, so his jumper shouldn't have to comply...

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby AVC Coach » Fri May 10, 2013 7:54 pm

ClintonMagus wrote:Last weekend, I had a coach argue me down about the new 18-inch standards rule. He said that he had been to all of the rules meetings, and this was never mentioned, so his jumper shouldn't have to comply...


Ignorance of the law doesn't make you innocent of the crime.

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby NEVaultFan » Fri May 10, 2013 9:48 pm

The Officials vaulter was not vaulting well and became upset because the height they tied at was well below her personel best. It was felt that they just wanted the event to be over so she wouldn't loose her confidence and have to go through a jump off. The other girl was from another state and didn't feel comforable with pushing the issue and her coach doesn't know much about the pole vault. So I think they just let it go.

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby PVJunkie » Mon May 13, 2013 1:50 pm

This issue is always made more difficult than it should be. The NFHS, NCAA and USATF rules are the same.

Makes never count against you. NFHS rules state "if a tie remains the competitor with the fewest total number of unsuccessful trials (misses) throughout the competition, up to and including the height last cleared, shall be awarded the higher place". They also state that "passes shall not count as misses". So the only thing that counts as a miss is a miss. There is nothing connecting the outcome to opening heights.

First, its funny that they include the misses at the height where the tie occurs since in order for it to be a tie they must have the same number of misses at that height. Un necessary to count them but so be it.

A tie begins with 2 or more athletes who clear the last bar with the same number of attempts. If they are tied the NFHS rules are clear, count the number of misses and the person with fewer misses wins. If they have the same number of misses they remain tied and, depending where that tie occurs a jump off may ensue but that's a whole different set of rules.

NCAA rules are the same just worded a little diferently.
Ties—Vertical Jumps
ARTICLE 6. In the high jump and pole vault, ties shall be resolved as follows (see accompanying example):
a. The competitor with the lowest number of jumps at the height at which the tie occurs shall be awarded the higher place.
b. If the tie still remains, the competitor with the lowest total of failures throughout the competition up to and including the height last cleared shall be awarded the higher place.

USATF
9. Placings – High Jump and Pole Vault:
If two or more competitors have the same best heights, the procedure to decide places is the following:
(a) The competitor with the lowest number of jumps at the height which was their best height in the competition shall be awarded the higher place.
(b) If applying (a) will not decide, the competitor with the lowest total of failures throughout the competition up to and including the height last cleared shall be awarded the higher place.

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby NEVaultFan » Tue May 14, 2013 11:20 pm

[quote="PVJunkie"]This issue is always made more difficult than it should be. The NFHS, NCAA and USATF rules are the same.
Makes never count against you.


apparently not in NY State.......

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby Vaultref » Sun May 26, 2013 9:19 am

NEVaultFan wrote:Does anyone know if this is a rule in NY state. A vaulter at Warwick Invite was penalized for coming in lower than her competitor. Neither had any misses until last height but instead of having a jump off the coach running it said the vaulter that came in higher wins. Never heard of this?



I'm from NY and this is not a NY State rule and of course not a NFHS rule.. May have been a "meet unique" rule.

Some invitational have unique rules .. I'm sure you've heard of the six-jump rule? The vertical jumps are run that way a one of the large inviational relay style meets here in my sectional area.

That be said, I will be at Warwick High School on Tuesday for a late season invit meet and I will ask about the meet where this incident occurred. An yes... I'll be running the vault as I have done at this meet for a number of years. No special rules apply.

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Re: Rule Question: Vaulter loses for coming in early?

Unread postby Vaultref » Thu May 30, 2013 7:58 pm

The answer to this dilemma is simply this.. a mistake was made by the people conducting the event.

They were not NY State certified officials and this was not a meet unique rule, they were simply volunteers running the event. I didn't ask, but there may have only been a couple of NY state officials at the meet (starter and finish line).

A question I'd like an answer too is why didn't the young ladies coach speak up and question the results. He/she must have been present at the meet.
While the meet (The Ahearn Classic) is a non-scoring meet, so no team scores were incorrect, that does not excuse the fact that an exciting part of a vertical jumps event was denied.

The meet director was not at the meet this year, but was provided with a way to assure results have been properly completed in the future. It's been noted that even the on-line results were posted incorrectly.
All that can be said now to the athletes is that the event ended in a true tie.. congratulations on both clearing 10'-6" without any misses through out the competition.


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