The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
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- 73-vaulter
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
I have told my vaulters "to treat the other coaches with respect and nod your head when they tell you what to do, and then only do what I tell you". That saves a lot of time, and frustration.
- ashcraftpv
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
73-vaulter wrote:I have told my vaulters "to treat the other coaches with respect and nod your head when they tell you what to do, and then only do what I tell you". That saves a lot of time, and frustration.
wish I had a "Like" button for this. Its exactly what I tell my kids.
PoleVaultPlanet is coming.....
- altius
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
The main issue here has been addressed before on PVP and it is not unique to the USA or indeed the vault.
Two stories.
In 1991 a young and very talented New Zealand athlete turned up in Adelaide as we began training one morning. He proceeded to warm up away from our group before coming down to use the pad. At no time did he ask for help, so when - after his first jump - Roman stepped forward to offer advice. I immediately intervened and asked Roman not to offer any comment, This was for three reasons. One - our policy was to never offer advice to an athlete who had not asked for it - or whose coach had not asked us for help. Two - at that time Roman was a knowledgeable but inexperienced coach and I pointed out that it is necessary to watch several/many attempts before it was possible to really identify what the athlete was doing. Three - we had no idea what technical model he was trying to employ or what his usual coach was working on.
That night I got a phone call from a NZ coach saying that I had caused an international incident by 'refusing to coach' this athlete. In an effort to clarify the situation we arranged a meeting with the lad the next morning in which the three issues were pointed out as the reasons for not 'coaching ' him - especially the fact that he had not asked for help. His response was that he could not believe that because everywhere he competed in NZ there were always folk coming up to offer advice -most of them he had never seen before! He accepted it as normal practice - this was a guy who jumped 5.52m!
Second story. I took a party of athletes on a competition tour of New Zealand. It included a girl who had thrown 57.20m in the javelin and competed for OZ. At a local competition in Hamilton a guy went up to her and started to lecture her on what she was doing wrong. I intervened and asked him not to talk with her - especially during competition - he was most upset because as he pointed out he had competed in the Commonwealth Games in the 6 mile event and had been involved in athletics for forty years! The fact that he had never coached a javelin thrower at any level was irrelevant to him and he did not believe he was wrong to approach her with advice!
Two stories.
In 1991 a young and very talented New Zealand athlete turned up in Adelaide as we began training one morning. He proceeded to warm up away from our group before coming down to use the pad. At no time did he ask for help, so when - after his first jump - Roman stepped forward to offer advice. I immediately intervened and asked Roman not to offer any comment, This was for three reasons. One - our policy was to never offer advice to an athlete who had not asked for it - or whose coach had not asked us for help. Two - at that time Roman was a knowledgeable but inexperienced coach and I pointed out that it is necessary to watch several/many attempts before it was possible to really identify what the athlete was doing. Three - we had no idea what technical model he was trying to employ or what his usual coach was working on.
That night I got a phone call from a NZ coach saying that I had caused an international incident by 'refusing to coach' this athlete. In an effort to clarify the situation we arranged a meeting with the lad the next morning in which the three issues were pointed out as the reasons for not 'coaching ' him - especially the fact that he had not asked for help. His response was that he could not believe that because everywhere he competed in NZ there were always folk coming up to offer advice -most of them he had never seen before! He accepted it as normal practice - this was a guy who jumped 5.52m!
Second story. I took a party of athletes on a competition tour of New Zealand. It included a girl who had thrown 57.20m in the javelin and competed for OZ. At a local competition in Hamilton a guy went up to her and started to lecture her on what she was doing wrong. I intervened and asked him not to talk with her - especially during competition - he was most upset because as he pointed out he had competed in the Commonwealth Games in the 6 mile event and had been involved in athletics for forty years! The fact that he had never coached a javelin thrower at any level was irrelevant to him and he did not believe he was wrong to approach her with advice!
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
- PV-ATL
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
Gang,
My response to this whole thing is simple:
"If you don't pay me or wear my uniform, I don't coach you."
I don't take 'requests". If we all keep it simple, it will all come out "in the wash". I don't talk to other coaches' kids and I have only a few coaches (...one actually...) I will let my kids listen to.
Kids and their parents pay me and depend on me to make them successful. Part of that is making sure they are on our technical model. I don't need to argue or discuss differences during a meet.
Cheers,
PV-ATL
My response to this whole thing is simple:
"If you don't pay me or wear my uniform, I don't coach you."
I don't take 'requests". If we all keep it simple, it will all come out "in the wash". I don't talk to other coaches' kids and I have only a few coaches (...one actually...) I will let my kids listen to.
Kids and their parents pay me and depend on me to make them successful. Part of that is making sure they are on our technical model. I don't need to argue or discuss differences during a meet.
Cheers,
PV-ATL
- altius
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
While it is true that US vaulting faces many problems, it is worth making the point that there are large numbers of good coaches in the USA who behave ethically. Over the last few years I have had the good fortune to work with Anthony Curran, Sean Brown, Paul Omi, Rick Baggett, Jeremy and Larren Bailey, Dean Starkey, Kris Allison, Joel Flores, Todd Cooper, Bubba Sparks, Tim McMichael, Vern Williams, Mark Hannay, Rusty Shealy, Rick Attig, Daniel Isaacs and Daniel Bertolami in clinics, and have met many others like Mike Larwyk, Kyle Bishop, Tim Beach and Branko Alphabet who are committed to excellence in the vault. There are also many young coaches like Phil Ericson who are just looking for the opportunity to show what they can do.
Clearly my experience of the US scene is very limited so there must be dozens more good coaches beavering away moving things forward. Perhaps it might be worthwhile for folk to add to the list I have started and see how many names are forthcoming in the next few days. I suspect that it will be a surprising number!
Apologies to other coaches I perhaps should have mentioned – old timers is rapidly kicking in!
Clearly my experience of the US scene is very limited so there must be dozens more good coaches beavering away moving things forward. Perhaps it might be worthwhile for folk to add to the list I have started and see how many names are forthcoming in the next few days. I suspect that it will be a surprising number!
Apologies to other coaches I perhaps should have mentioned – old timers is rapidly kicking in!
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
- vaultman18
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
altius wrote:While it is true that US vaulting faces many problems, it is worth making the point that there are large numbers of good coaches in the USA who behave ethically. Over the last few years I have had the good fortune to work with Anthony Curran, Sean Brown, Paul Omi, Rick Baggett, Jeremy and Larren Bailey, Dean Starkey, Kris Allison, Joel Flores, Todd Cooper, Bubba Sparks, Tim McMichael, Vern Williams, Mark Hannay, Rusty Shealy, Rick Attig, Daniel Isaacs and Daniel Bertolami in clinics, and have met many others like Mike Larwyk, Kyle Bishop, Tim Beach and Branko Alphabet who are committed to excellence in the vault. There are also many young coaches like Phil Ericson who are just looking for the opportunity to show what they can do.
Clearly my experience of the US scene is very limited so there must be dozens more good coaches beavering away moving things forward. Perhaps it might be worthwhile for folk to add to the list I have started and see how many names are forthcoming in the next few days. I suspect that it will be a surprising number!
Apologies to other coaches I perhaps should have mentioned – old timers is rapidly kicking in!
Haha I made the list and Roma didn't.
- altius
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
A couple of years ago when I suggested to Steve Chappell that Roman should be a permanent fixture at the Summit I was told that they did not regard Roman as a practising coach so would not consider him as a staff member. Once the mighty have spoken I have to heed them - Roman is NOT a 'coach' - even though I know he is coaching!
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
- rainbowgirl28
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
altius wrote:A couple of years ago when I suggested to Steve Chappell that Roman should be a permanent fixture at the Summit I was told that they did not regard Roman as a practising coach so would not consider him as a staff member. Once the mighty have spoken I have to heed them - Roman is NOT a 'coach' - even though I know he is coaching!
The Summit is just politics. It's largely moved away from being a USATF Development Event. It's still a very good education and entertainment experience, but I don't think the staff selected for the PV Summit staff should necessarily be viewed as the be all and end all of who USATF or anyone else thinks the best PV coaches in America are. It is a great staff selection, just saying there are plenty of good coaches who either choose not to serve on it, or have never been asked.
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
Allen where did you get my last name from? It's actually Miric. Hahaha.
- rainbowgirl28
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
Branko720 wrote:Allen where did you get my last name from? It's actually Miric. Hahaha.
He's old, he can just make stuff up and get a pass
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
That is not the case! Flache...
- joebro391
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Re: The Dysfunctional World of US Pole Vaulting
Without the coaching and guidance that I got from PVP, I would probably have never have cleared 15'. I've learned from some of the coaches that I've had (and finally have one that really knows what they're doing) but a lot of what I know about this sport, and the "secrets" of the sport, I got here. Now I know who and what to listen to, being a student of the sport and not just an athlete. Especially now that I have no college vault coach, sometimes PVP is the only place to turn to, to spot something in my jump that I'm not experienced to see. I obviously wouldn't just listen to a coach (short of maybe Bob Philips) during a competition because I have no clue who the person is and what type of experience/knowledge they have. An athlete should have the ability to not accept advice from an unfamiliar coach and nod them to death. I feel I'm at that point where (although I certainly don't know everything about this sport), I can decipher good advice from bad advice. But to say that getting coaching from PVP is bad, I have to disagree and then some. -6P
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