which is better??

[dheldr01]

To collapse the bottom arm and get fiber faced

Or

To block out and push the bottom arm into the pit?????

I was advised to tell a vaulter to block out instead of collapsing her bottom arm because there was not other way possible to fix the bottom arm and it is impossible to invert while fiber faced, but possible to invert while blocking out

I believe the fiber face is due to steps being under and a weak top arm, and think the best way to fix this was with rope drills and stick vaulting, despite the advice of blocking out

What are your thoughts

[altius]

"it is impossible to invert while fiber faced". Take a look at Lauren Eley on page 80 of BTB2 - or images of her anywhere through the book and you may be amazed to see that your statement is incorrect -as are other assumptions you have put forward here.

[VaultPurple]

To collapse the bottom arm and get fiber faced

Or

To block out and push the bottom arm into the pit?????

I was advised to tell a vaulter to block out instead of collapsing her bottom arm because there was not other way possible to fix the bottom arm and it is impossible to invert while fiber faced, but possible to invert while blocking out

I believe the fiber face is due to steps being under and a weak top arm, and think the best way to fix this was with rope drills and stick vaulting, despite the advice of blocking out

What are your thoughts

Due to the fact that not everyone owns BTB2 and they still come to this forum for advice. I will try to be a little more helpful.

The simple answer is: You can still invert with a really crappy plant where your arm collapse and you almost get hit by the pole (a lot of girls do this but usually do it because the pole is planted slightly sideways and they end with it right beside their head, not in their face). You do this by having a good swing. However if you block out by pushing your arm into the pit you are causing a lot more bad than good. Usually the only way to invert while doing this is to muscle your inversion, and if the girl is too week to plant the pole, she will probably not be strong enough to muscle an inversion.

The best advice I have is to just work on her plant and teach her to do it properly. It does not take a strong upper body to bend a pole properly, even for a girl. She is most likely doing something else wrong. The separation between top hand and face can be achieved by good runway speed and a tall straight plant because the speed from the runway is what bends the pole, not that bottom arm (yes I know it is possible to bend it with the bottom arm, but it is not advised for proper technique and safty. It is usually harder to land deeper into the pit and keep your body moving into the pit with a good swing while you are blocking out by pushing your arm into the pit).

Videos of the actual vault would probably do wonders in actually diagnosing the problems and not just the symptom.

[dheldr01]

You both just affirmed what I already knew, I thought my post was clear, but I guess it wasn't. I knew it was possible to invert while fiber faced, I was just looking for world renowned clarification for the coach who insisted that this vaulter block out with her bottom arm.

Her plant was weak, runway speed was good, but she strided out and came in about 2ft under, I knew right away to tell her to adjust her steps and run with good posture and high knees, another coach kept insisting that she block out with her bottom arm.

Does this make sense or does it still sound like I am asking her to block out and she can't invert fiber faced?

[dheldr01]

Also, I know her bottom arm is suppose to push UP at take off instead of collapsing, but I was more focused on fixing her steps and top arm first since I knew she could still swing upside down with a collapsed bottom arm, but not with a blocked out arm

[VaultPurple]

well then to answer your question... NEVER BLOCK OUT WITH THE BOTTOM ARM.

The whole reason it is called blocking out is because it keeps you from swinging through the pole right. It may look good right away because you see a better bend and she does not look so jammed. But blocking out pushes the pole forward which in turn pushes the vaulter away from the pole in the direction of the runway, causing the vaulter to usually land close to the box and even if she does get more time to get up side down, the angle her body makes with the top hand will be wrong and probably just sling her legs back down when the pole unbends.

[charlie]

There are 3 ways to plant-- BLOCK which takes NO strength--CLUTCH which takes NO strength-- or the ELITE way which takes STRENGTH( EARLY-TALL- PRESS SUPPORT)) I have had 31 hs state champions in Georgia from 15 different high schools in the last 4 years and they ALL plant that way!! I also have had a decathlete recently-11footer that learned that way and vaulted 16'6" 12 weeks later!!!

[altius]

"Due to the fact that not everyone owns BTB2 and they still come to this forum for advice. I will try to be a little more helpful."

But as a sage once observed 'A picture is worth a thousand words' eg "But blocking out pushes the pole forward which in turn pushes the vaulter away from the pole in the direction of the runway, causing the vaulter to usually land close to the box and even if she does get more time to get up side down, the angle her body makes with the top hand will be wrong and probably just sling her legs back down when the pole unbends".

[altius]

"I have had 31 hs state champions in Georgia from 15 different high schools in the last 4 years and they ALL plant that way!!" How you find time to coach at fifteen different high schools??

[charlie]

I don't recruit any body , they ALL come to my facility( they come to me, I don't go to them) in GEORGIA from Florida --Tennessee-West Virginia-Alabama-South Carolina-they fly in and drive in and stay sometimes 4 days at a time. We also hold ALL the records in Georgia in GISA(private schools) 1A-2AA-3AA both boys and girls.

[altius]

And as I have asked repeatedly in the past - how high do these young athletes jump? Provide the prs of the athletes you claim. But if this is the way the system works I am going to add the names of all the athletes who have attended clinics with me in the US, England, Scotland and OZ over the last six years to my curriculum vitae. Not sure I will have space of course - and their high school coaches who work with them the rest of the year might be a bit upset to see me take credit for them.

[golfdane]

Before this evolves into a peeing contest:
The result of a collapsed bottom arm is NOT necessarily a fiberface. As the original poster said, does it come from a weak top arm (and possibly being under as well).
You do NOT fix fiberface syndrom by pressing with the bottom arm THROUGHOUT the jump, as it will introduce other problems (and here, safety becomes an issue).

The plant should be tall, and the top arm firm, as if in a handstand through the plant and into the take-off. That way, will the energy of the run be transferred efficiently onto the top end of the pole, and the pole WILL bend if the pole and grip corresponds with the speed and the weight of the vaulter. The bottom arm should be as straight as it is naturally, when the pole is straight and in the box and you are on your take-off point. When you leave the ground, should you allow the bottom arm bend when the chest is pushed forward in the penetration phase (which should be short, and not like Feofanova for example). That way, will the vaulter be able to swing efficiently (he/she is not hindered by a blocking/pressing bottom arm), and add energy into the pole (and the pole bends even more).

Do NOT introduce faulty technique to the jumper to overcome physical inadequacy (the vaulter is not fast enough, strong enough or there is not a fitting pole available). It will only hurt the jumper on a later stage. Condition the vaulter instead.