right footed right handed vaulter

A forum to discuss pole vault technique as it relates to beginning vaulters. If you have been jumping less than a year, this is the forum for you.

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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby vquestpvc » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:12 pm

On the contrary, Stacy was a natural right handed person; left footed. Her first vault coach however, was a lefty and taught her to vault from his perspective. She was a very succesful vaulter, but we'll never know just how good she might have been. My point then to Decathlete21 is: were you taught to vault off your left foot or did taking off your left foot come natural in the vault. Honestly, if you are already a decent long jumper off your right foot, then I believe you should continue as such in the vault. I seen it noted several times that the long jump is good practice for vaulting. Why have a completely different approach and rhythm in the vault. At 12 feet in the vault, it wouldn't be monument to change to the right foot.

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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby powerplant42 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:00 pm

If Dragila was naturally left-footed and did more than alright, then decathlete21 shouldn't have problems either! I would think it would take a lot more effort than it's worth, especially for a decathlete... If he were looking for 6.00, that might be different.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby dj » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:06 pm

vquestpvc

Stacy was a natural right handed person; left footed. Her first vault coach however, was a lefty and taught her to vault from his perspective. She was a very succesful vaulter, but we'll never know just how good she might have been.


i know you mean no disrespect.... but we know how good Stacey was and could be based on her performance. Could see have been better? I think she will tell you yes, only If she had a better run… I don't think needing a better run has anything to do with jumping right or left handed.

It's all based on "feel" when you are introduced to the event. Same with hurdling, long jumping, high jumping, triple jumping etc…

Motor skills are "learned" over time… unless you are a complete beginner you will "lose time" if you go back to the beginning.. time that can be used, if used correctly, to move progressively forward.

Most good athletes are equally "strong" on both sides of the body…. The bottom line is which has become the most "comfortable".

I could throw, kick and jump from either, R or L… when I started vaulting I happened to grab the pole in a right handed manner so I became a right handed vaulter. I long jumped from either at first but eventually went left from my basketball right handed layup days. I did both in the triple jump for a while but eventually went left-left to get two jumps from my most comfortable leg. I hurdled from either, right or left in the IM's and push from the left.. lead right in the 110's… but I couls run a full flight of the 110's with all left lead… I could throw a football with either but "migrated" to right because most teams are "right" handed plus I played QB very little so it wasn't an issue….

The point I'm trying to make is, unless there is some real "issues" with the way he is vaulting you will only "lose time" and progress with no potential "huge" up side.

dj

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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby altius » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:30 pm

Ah -we agree yet again dj! :D
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby vquestpvc » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:33 am

Well, it seems the point was missed. No problem. "Alright" is relative and if DJ reads his own last posting, he might see his position actually supports my point. The best PV coach I ever met made his introduction by stating: "it ain't that difficult and shouldn't be made such"; oh, this was at a presentation in front of hundreds of track coaches.

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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby dj » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:59 am

vquestpvc

sorry i missed the point.....

but I will re-state my opinion…. As too change or not change at this point in the athletes development.

Without physically working with the athlete I honestly do not know. But with the information given I don't think a change is necessary.

and in general,,, unless there is "issues" other than his technique has not caught up to his speed ability, I would see no reason to make a change.

Here is some "reasons" for my opinions… first you should never indiscriminately make them a right or left handed vaulter based on them "being" predominately right or left handed. Yes it's a start but the coach should not make that decision based on a preconceived notion. Look at "comfort" and immediate positive result function.

Same goes to "jumping foot"… in the long jump we should never "make" the athlete jump from the right foot because they "kick a ball" with the right foot! In the sprint start we should never "make" the athlete set up in the blocks a certain way just by a preconceived notion/test? that we think indicates such.. yes it's a starting point but not a "make/forced" situation.

The most important factor is comfort/balance… and the "kinesthetic feel" the athlete has developed to this point and what the athlete "feels" best doing…

is the athlete always right? No.. but "feel" or natural comes from signals/patterns that have already been developed in the brain and changing those most times is not the best solution. Are there exceptions?... yes and this is when the coach needs to make a change to help the athlete "re-program" the process…

This is what coaching is about… only changing what needs to be changed and leave the good stuff where it is and make it better.

dj

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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby vquestpvc » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:53 am

DJ..........from your last posting, again I see you get the point. You wrote: "you should never indiscriminately make" or "make that decision based on a preconceived notion" How true are both. A coach's responsibility is to evaluate an athlete's abilities assisting him or her to achieve the greatest success. If you read my first posting regarding the question which was directed to Decathlete21, perhaps you'd understand my point more clearly. And most humbly submitted, an individual who kicks a ball with the right foot is predominantly left footed; it's the "base" thing. So, a coach might have asked Decathlete21 which foot he felt comfortable kicking the ball with; maybe Stacy should have been asked the same question.

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Re: right footed right handed vaulter

Unread postby dj » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:45 am

an individual who kicks a ball with the right foot is predominantly left footed...


that has been my "logic" since 1966........ but wasn't the common "logic" being passed around the world in the early days of my competitive and coaching career. Don't know if i can find the printed articles from those days but we had a lot of right foot takeoff long jumpers base on some "predetermined" coach or bio-mechanist "thinking".

But i do think we are on the same page... to change or not to change this athlete at this point should be determined by the coach and athlete based on the "feel" and function at this point.... provided the athletes "feel' has not already been altered by training a specific way.

Bruce Jenner. For some reason way back in the early days of my coaching career and even at the end of my competitive career i was asked, along with a handful of knowledgeable coaches, what i though from a "physics" standpoint of Bruce jumping (over 16 feet) with a right hand grip and a right foot takeoff.

Side bar..to "quantify" why i was in a position to be asked by some pretty good coaches my opinion. From my first year in college i "researched" physics, physiology and every type of "human" movement in sports, (even researched animals to compare to humans- the cheetah was my idol) from throwing a football, to speed, to jumping to strength. From the first NAIA national championship i went to, indoor and out, i went to the "clinics" with the coaches. I took notes from coaches like Payton Jordan, Wilbur Ross, Bob Timmons, Jimmy Carnes and coaches that i don't know their names that coached Jim Hines, Bob Beamon, Jeff Bennett, John Pennel, Bruce Jenner, Mike Mattox, John Craft, Jan Johnson, Oliver "Bubba" Ford and many more. I knew i was going to coach after my running/jumping career.

So i was asked about Bruce, by this time i was in Florida with the Florida Track Club, 1971. I had already "studied" and "tested" what he was doing. I never wanted anyone to have something that could make me better as an athlete or coach.

Advantage or disadvantage? First answer was it was virtually impossible to do on steel (remember real fibreglass vaulting was less than 10 years old.) why could he do it on successfully on fibreglass? My thoughts and answers were this.. he still had the plant up, he could still "jump" and transfer the "momentum" on to the pole and the pole would "move" away" from him so he didn't smack into it like he would on steel. Would a left takeoff foot be better, probably from a "reach up" stand point butt what was the greatest advantage to fibreglass??? My answer.. shortening the radius of the pole so you could swing easier into the pit but still have a higher "ending" hand grip to swing from, resulting in potentially higher vaults.

The discussion ended with probably not enough advantage to change at this point.

Could Stacy have had a better run if she carried the pole as a "rightie" and jumped from her left? That is something that should have been determined in her first couple of months of vaulting.

dj


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