Rowing the hands?

[master]

...It holds the shoulders in front of the hands while swinging up on a horizontal bar, just like in the vault.

I would agree that when I vault, my shoulders are in front of my hands shortly after take off. What I have a problem with is the apparatus "holds the shoulders" there and in doing so, gives the user a support to work against that is not there in a real vault. If you did this exercise, you would definitely build up muscle structure in the torso, but that would happen with a lot of exercises.

I prefer to practice the whip swing to teach myself how to give my body the momentum to get my feet up to cover the pole, and then practice "Bubkas" (see http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4838) to build the strength and technique to finish the move to vertical. Of course, I am not yet successful in getting vertical, but I continue to train to achieve that position.

- master

[gtc]

Is it important to tuck up in a little ball like in the second frame when you use that rack thing?

[Gchap7]

Similar to advath's drill is this one. Go to home depot or EMS and buy a rope that will hold your wieght. I went with EMS and got a legit rock climbing rope and a carabiner. Tie the carabiner to the climbing so you can attach it to the pull up bar, or anything really. Then feed the rope through a broken pole and tie it off at the bottom. Now you have a pole where you can practice your bubka's on. I use the squat rack in the gym and the whole set up cost my 15 bucks.

With a partner spotting and asisting you, invert up and you can actuall twist and put pressure on your bottom hand like you would in a jump. Its hard because there is no momentum, but have your partner help you. My biggest problem is that I don't swing tight enough to the pole and this has helped a lot with that phase of the jump.

[advath]

Is it important to tuck up in a little ball like in the second frame when you use that rack thing?

No, but it is important to use your trail leg as a throttle. To speed up the rockback it may shorten. Timing is important in the pole vault.

[AVC Coach]

Interesting piece of equipment. Judging from the photos, the mechanics of the swing don't look any different from what could be accomplished on a normal high bar.

If you look at the pictures above, all of the vaulters have their top hands behind their heads (which I believe answers the original question about rowing), but not in the picture of the guy demonstrating on the Rock Back machine.

Just wondering why this machine would be better than a high bar.

[advath]

top hands behind their heads (which I believe answers the original question about rowing), but not in the picture of the guy demonstrating on the Rock Back machine

Are you really seeing this guy's top hand in front of his shoulders?

He has both hands behind his shoulders.
Try reading http://advantageathletics.com/2005/?page_id=72 . The Rockback Rack does hang on a high bar. In that page it tells how to do the drill without the rack under A. Pole Vault High Bar Power Rockbacks

[AVC Coach]

His body is in the same position as the other pics but his hands are not. I see where you're going with this apparatus, and the idea is good. Just needs a few more adjustments on the angle of the bar and the placement of the Rockback attachment to simulate a more realistic trajectory for the vaulter.

[polevaulter08nw]

my coach has a better sing thing, its got handles that come out for your hands and then pads behind the handles for your legs, but its free hanging, not mounted on a wall.

[Sebes]

I can't believe people are saying rowing is bad. I know everybody's got his or her own style of vaulting, but I thought it was a universal belief that rowing is a crucial element in the vault.

Visualize: At the plant your arms are locked out - the most efficient way to transfer energy into the pole, otherwise the muscles in your bent left arm absorb the force.

Immediately after the take off your left arm can bend slightly, loading your right arm with a ton of energy. That's when you row. Does "simultaneous double pendulum" ring a bell? Whatever happened to that? You row the hell out of the pole as you ferociously swing, putting downward pressure that gets your body inverted quickly before the pole recoils.

I’m my opinion rowing is definitely necessary. Please tell me if I’m becoming a dinosaur in technique-theory.

[jomrus]

I agree totally with SEBES. When performing a shoulder pull (which is what I see in the pictures) a vaulter hangs from a bar and during the "swing" phase, the vaulter must exert force with his or her shoulders and lat muscles. This force is necessary in order to bring a vaulter to a "vertical position" in which the thighs are resting against the bar. You can talk about this all you want, but if you do not use your shoulders in the movement during the "swing phase", then you will not be able to cover the pole sufficiently.

One thing that really bugged me was the talk about how the hands never moved "ahead" of the head. Of course they don't. If you were able to row on a pole and force it out in front of you, so to speak, then you would be in a situation where you would have a considerable blow- through.

If "Rowing" does not get your vaulters to swing upside down, then don't use the term, but there is definitely a row of the arms and a swing of the legs involved at the same time.

[vaultwest]

AMEN!!!!

[AVC Coach]

I think we all have various ideas of what "rowing" actually means. Not that any of us are wrong, but we all seem to visualize it differently. You do have to rotate around your shoulders, but when someone says row, I see the hands moving forward to meet the hips and I just don't agree with that.

Bubka didn't lock his bottom arm at the plant, so I can't see why anyone would consider it or why Sebes would speak so strongly for it.