Who needs a pole vault coach?

[baggettpv]

Oh yeah.
Also I would consider the Previous Knowledge and Experiences the student bring into the sport, the Psychological Development Level they are at plus the Socio-Economic status and needs of the parent/s.

Rick Baggett
WSTC Sabin Skills Center
Carpentry Instructor

[CB550]

Dang it! Can't believe if forgot Kanland! One of the best programs in the state over the past 30 years. Harry Anderson started it all. Too many good vaulters to list. Randy kept the ball rolling out there. I new I shouldn't have started naming names. :^)

[EIUvltr]

Ok since this post got out of control, I'm going to try and bring it back down to earth. I'm not saying that I have the worst situation in all of sports. However I am a volunteer coach, and even though it isnt' impossible for me to produce some good vaulters here, I'd much rather be at a school that isn't as self-destructive. I'm doing this on the side, its not my main career. And I'd like to help out at a school where I'm not a glorified babysitter.

Here is a good example of the kids' attitudes. Recently we had a meet vs. Fenger high school. You have probably heard of them due to the video of a student from there getting murdered last year. The difference between my school and theirs is that they are making the best of what they have. They had to compete in gym shorts with a white T-shirt tucked in. But they warmed up for their events, they competed well and they were very respectable. The kids at my school embarrassed themselves. They were shadow boxing, making out with their girlfriends (along with one kid who actually got into a fist fight with one of our girls), missing events, but when the 4x400 rolled around they sure found the energy to do their stupid chant. I swear they put more effort into that chant than they do into practice. They take what they have for granted, and they take the coaching staff's leniency for granted. Most of these kids won't respond to any type of coaching besides the authoritative type. This is not to say that ALL the kids are like this. There are a few kids who really take track seriously and don't need to be yelled at all the time, and we try to give them the majority of our attention since they are deserving of it. However they are the exception rather than the rule.

As far as my complaints with the school go, its complicated. Our old superintendent took all the keys to the weight room away from the coaches so she could work out by herself after school. We have a $300,000 weight room that rivals most Division I colleges and we weren't even allowed to use it. Fortunately, our new superintendent is much better however there is still a lot of work to be done. The school likes to brag about how many sports it offers, so it keeps adding sports, even if they interfere with other sports. I understand that in high school you need to learn to share facilities with other sports, but this is ridiculous. Our track team can hardly fit in the field house as it is and now we can't even go on the midfield. The box is in the infield so we can't vault until after spring break (early April) when the pits get moved outside (we can't do this ourselves because the maintenance workers have a union that says they get to move the pits on a specific date). Pole runs are impossible because the track is a constant flow of runners. Coming in after track practice is over can't happen because Lacrosse uses the facility. We've tried to use the sidewalks outside but I almost had a kid get hurt so I scratched that idea. Weekends don't work because the school goes into lock-down mode. On top of all this our new AD hasn't bought us a new pole in 2 years. He offered to buy us 1 for our best male vaulter but our girls are jumping on poles WAY too large. They should be on 11' 120-140s and instead they have to jump on 13' 140s.

Is it impossible to vault well under these circumstances? No. I managed to jump 14-6 in here and 15+ the summer after. However I can't expect all my vaulters to have the obsessive personality I have. I spent thousands of dollars of my own money on pole vault camps, I drove to other schools to practice (and borrow poles) on occasion, I installed a high bar and a gymnastics ring set-up. But again it wouldn't be fair for me to expect my vaulters to have to do all this.

Now before you guys claim I'm some heartless ******* and Altius claims that I should be churning out DI vaulters and the only reason I'm not is because I'm some big-headed coach who doesn't care about his athletes. Know that I am more than willing to go above and beyond for an athlete. I have one girl who has only jumped 8' but has the potential to go WAY higher. I admire the hell out of her too, shes smart, she's been through a lot and is far more mature than the other athletes. In an effort to help her get better I agreed to train her before school (6:30-7:30ish) every day. But I shouldn't have to. I don't think its fair for an athlete to have to go through what I went through and what she is going through just to get better. If a school offers a sport, they should allow every opportunity for their athletes to excel in that sport. Now I'm not going to abandon my athletes, I'll finish out the year, however next year I would very much like to coach somewhere that I'm not fighting against the current at all times.

[altius]

"Altius claims that I should be churning out DI vaulters".

Could you point out exactly where I said this - in fact I would like to see the direct quote. We have had enough hyperbole without you stretching the truth as well.

[EIUvltr]

"Altius claims that I should be churning out DI vaulters".

Could you point out exactly where I said this - in fact I would like to see the direct quote. We have had enough hyperbole without you stretching the truth as well.

"Now before you guys claim I'm some heartless ******* and Altius claims that I should be churning out DI vaulters and the only reason I'm not is because I'm some big-headed coach who doesn't care about his athletes."

I was not quoting you "old son." I said "before" this happens implying that before this post escalates even more. Way to focus on the most irrelevant detail of the post though, good job. I still don't understand what your goal is here, you don't even live in this hemisphere, what do you care about where I coach? Why are you even looking at the Illinois forum anyway?

[altius]

I care for two reasons. 1. Because kids everywhere need a chance to grow and to change - no matter what their background and their problems are. And 2. Because I am a professional sports educator . bad teachers and coaches anywhere give my profession a bad name. Remember I lived and worked in the US for six years, have been back every year for the past six years and probably over twenty times in total for extended periods, have seen more of the USA than most Americans, know more of the real - not mythical - American history than most of your citizens. I understand the problems of inner city US and their schools and believe that they are an indication of a failing society. Only committed individuals who care about kids have any chance of changing this - my concern was that with your attitude - despite your knowledge and skill - you would not be able to contribute to that change. However at this point in time at the age of 76 I do not pretend that I could do it either.

But if you are in any way a sports scientist take at look at what the research says about the negative effects on performance of a focus on winning. Because unless you do so - and take on board what you learn - you will not be successful even when you do meet those wide eyed kids who just want to be coached in the pole vault.

[Tincup1215]

I don't know how well your kids will respond to this EIU, but this has worked for me.

How I deal with jags... I flat out tell them they have 2 options.

Option 1: You're done jumping for safety reasons. Not listening or applying what your coach tells you is how injuries happen. No AD or Principal will argue against that.
Option 2: Listen to what you say, do what you want and you will get better.

I've actually been coaching for 4 years now and am a year younger than you and have had to deal with some of your situations and honestly... if I ever had a high school kid call me a Motherf**king cracker or even curse at me whatsoever I would go straight to the head coach. If they don't want to do anything about it I'd go to the AD. If he/she doesn't want to do anything about it then I would probably resign my position, wish them luck on finding a new PV coach at this point in the season and get out of there before I say a bunch of things I'd regret.

[EIUvltr]

I care for two reasons. 1. Because kids everywhere need a chance to grow and to change - no matter what their background and their problems are. And 2. Because I am a professional sports educator . bad teachers and coaches anywhere give my profession a bad name. Remember I lived and worked in the US for six years, have been back every year for the past six years and probably over twenty times in total for extended periods, have seen more of the USA than most Americans, know more of the real - not mythical - American history than most of your citizens. I understand the problems of inner city US and their schools and believe that they are an indication of a failing society. Only committed individuals who care about kids have any chance of changing this - my concern was that with your attitude - despite your knowledge and skill - you would not be able to contribute to that change. However at this point in time at the age of 76 I do not pretend that I could do it either.

But if you are in any way a sports scientist take at look at what the research says about the negative effects on performance of a focus on winning. Because unless you do so - and take on board what you learn - you will not be successful even when you do meet those wide eyed kids who just want to be coached in the pole vault.

Ok, I completely agree with all this. The US is a failing society, you can't sustain a society that doesn't produce anything and gets less intelligent every year. However not every kid has taken the plunge. There are still a few good ones even in the worst of areas, but when they go to a school that seems to go out of its way to set them up for failure, it gets a bit frustrating when you're trying to coach them. And I'm not the only coach who feels like this. Almost every coach/teacher at the school I'm at is fed up with the administration. I would rather not coach in such a setting.

Also, I clarified that I thought a lot of kids had a chance to be state qualifiers, and these are the kids who I would want to pole vault. You have to admit that as a coach you do make selections based on physique. If a 6'5" 280 lbs. kid wants to pole vault you tell him "sorry man" and point him towards the shot ring. I don't think that's immoral, its just the way it is. But just because I try to find the athletes who I think would excel most in the pole vault, doesn't mean that I'm going to belittle them if they don't do well. In my mind I want kids downstate, but at practice all I encourage is improvement. If that means going from 7' to 7'6" fine. If it means 15' to 16' fantastic. I'm aware that screaming at a kid day in and day out that s/he sucks isn't going to be ideal. Some kids maybe, but not most. I get the impression that is what you believe my coaching method is. No. I scream at the kids who waste my time and my athletes' time. I rarely get angry at the kids who try no matter how good/bad they are.

[EIUvltr]

I don't know how well your kids will respond to this EIU, but this has worked for me.

How I deal with jags... I flat out tell them they have 2 options.

Option 1: You're done jumping for safety reasons. Not listening or applying what your coach tells you is how injuries happen. No AD or Principal will argue against that.
Option 2: Listen to what you say, do what you want and you will get better.

I've actually been coaching for 4 years now and am a year younger than you and have had to deal with some of your situations and honestly... if I ever had a high school kid call me a Motherf**king cracker or even curse at me whatsoever I would go straight to the head coach. If they don't want to do anything about it I'd go to the AD. If he/she doesn't want to do anything about it then I would probably resign my position, wish them luck on finding a new PV coach at this point in the season and get out of there before I say a bunch of things I'd regret.

Why do you think I made this post? However I don't blame the head coach because he is truly trying to help these kids despite some of the dumb things they do (and has to deal with much more stuff than I have to). Talking to the AD is like talking to a wall, he was brought in as a hatchet man and won't spend a dime on anyone or anything.

[altius]

I'm aware that screaming at a kid day in and day out that s/he sucks isn't going to be ideal. Some kids maybe, but not most. NOT ANY! From what you have already said it appears that many of these kids have been screamed at by better screamers than you almost since birth. I sense a small - very small - change in where you are coming from. Keep up the good work.

[EIUvltr]

I think its the opposite, I don't think these kids have had any discipline ever. Maybe its a combination of both.

[altius]

Screaming at kids does not develop discipline -just resentment.