The bottom Arm-A strength thing?

[Tim McMichael]

I want to let Brittany know that we all have bad seasons once in a while. I had a debacle in '90 when I no-heighted in three major meets in a row and only made 18' once. Even Bubka had a hard time in the Olympics. If you read this, don't be discouraged. If this sport was easy they might call it football.

[Tim McMichael]

The right amount of bend in the left arm varies from one athlete to the next. The important thing is that the left hand comes back to a point just in front of a line drawn vertically up from the front of the athlete’s head. Unless the left hand reaches this point, the vauter is blocked out and cannot swing. How the hand gets to this point depends on the flexibility of the athlete’s shoulders; less flexibility means more bend in the elbow. I have freakish flexibility due to having vaulted from the age of five till the age of forty. For that reason, my left arm can be almost straight and still come back far enough. This leads to the illusion that I am pushing up on the pole with a locked out arm. But I am not. I only point this out because I have a video posted on the media page, and I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea from watching it.

Here is the best way I have found to find the right amount of bend in the elbow. When you plant, have your elbow facing outward toward the left instead of inward toward the pit. With the elbow out to the side, the shoulders are free to relax and allow the left arm to come back without the elbow collapsing. Athletes that adopt this position tend to find the right amount of bend in the left arm naturally. This is because the shoulders are free to work like they are supposed to. Even for athletes who have very straight left arms, if you watch them from behind you will see that the left arm is bowed outward at takeoff. It may straighten after this, but if they are good jumpers, this will be because the bend of the pole is pulling a relaxed left arm outward, not because they are pushing it there. Hope this helps

[vault3rb0y]

I thought I might add that although its good to watch videos of the elite jumpers to get hints on the right way to do certain things, only watch them with guidance like tim gave above. If we all watched this videos without a trained eye we might think to always have your arms locked, and wait very long before we swing. What its important to realize when we dont have a trained eye, is that you dont have to look EXACTLY like an elite jumper, because we are not all on 16-17' poles, in which the timing and certain aspects of the jump appear different than how we jump on 14' poles. So yes, watch as many videos as you can, but be sure to ask someone on here or a coach before you assume its necessarily the right way to do something.

[sooch90]

instead of creating a new thread, I decided to post in this thread.

Okay, so I pole vaulted for the first time last saturday (since like August). I noticed one problem that appeared in almost all of my vaults, my left arm would block out once I brought it down to my hips.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4206&hl=en

If you examine closely, after I plant, my left arm becomes straighter and then blocks out. One thing I thought I should do is instead of having my left arm become straight, have it bend and pull to my hips. That way the bent pole would rotate and my left arm would collapse?

I'm also thinking I should try planting with a left arm bent outward instead of inward towards the pit(according to what Tim said above). What do you guys think?

[vault3rb0y]

Well i could tell the problem without seeing the video. You dont bring your hands or arms to your hips, your hips come to the pole and then to your hands because of a strong swing and correct hand position. But you are right, you block out pretty badly right now. It looks to me like you are trying to row through the vault, meaning you push both arms forward, just like rowing, and it helps the pole roll over. But that it going to kill any chance you have of getting inverted.

I would suggest getting on a soft pole you know you will make it into the pit with, and try to get the correct hand position. Heres a few things it took me a while to realize you have to do to get good hand position.
first off.... Relax . If you are tense you are likely to want to row again.
2.) Trust physics. You are more likely to get into the pit with your hands over your head.
3.) Think about things one step at a time; starting with taking your bottom arm and putting pressure upwards.
4.) If your hands are in the right position, your hips will WANT you to swing... so swing .
5.) once you do it right, do it about 1000 times so its a muscle habit.

Good luck, tell me how it went. I went through the same problem about 4 months ago.

[sooch90]

Hey thanks for the tips, I have another meet today so I'll tell you guys how it goes.

[sooch90]

I'm still having the problem, I just dunno what to do.

I think I need to take this problem step by step.

So first, both my arms need to be straight at takeoff, without blocking out? If that's true then that's what I'll work on first. But how do I keep them straight without blocking out? Especially since I've heard many people say you're not suppose to bend the pole with your bottom arm? So how does one keep it straight?

*edit* Also I read about the "chain" model or something? And apparently you're suppose to pull with the bottom arm right after you plant? So I'm guessing in my case, instead of moving my arms forward and blocking out, I pull with the bottom arm and move it right to my hips keeping it bent the whole way through?

What else should I do?

Please keep giving me advice! I need it very badly because I have no coach

[JTred]

Sorry if I'm re-hijacking this from you Sooch, but for the bottom arm problem, since I can't vault yet, will a weighted stubby help me prepare for when I do get to vault? I have a regular stubby too for good technique, but I'm just wondering if a weighted stubby has any benefits.

[sooch90]

Sorry if I'm re-hijacking this from you Sooch, but for the bottom arm problem, since I can't vault yet, will a weighted stubby help me prepare for when I do get to vault? I have a regular stubby too for good technique, but I'm just wondering if a weighted stubby has any benefits.

haha not a problem

[Cooleo111]

*edit* Also I read about the "chain" model or something? And apparently you're suppose to pull with the bottom arm right after you plant? So I'm guessing in my case, instead of moving my arms forward and blocking out, I pull with the bottom arm and move it right to my hips keeping it bent the whole way through?

NO!!! NEVER pull on the pole. EVER!

To answer your first question, the most important thing is to have a high, early plant. This means get your arms up completely BEFORE you take off. Your top arm should be straight no matter what (if you got your arms up), but depending on your grip width and pole length and other things, your bottom arm may not be completely straight. However, as long as it is up and over your head, you should be able to accomplish a good takeoff. Blocking out is usually termed when a vaulter pushes horizontally with their bottom arm, which leads to a LOT of problems (trust me!).

[sooch90]

*edit* Also I read about the "chain" model or something? And apparently you're suppose to pull with the bottom arm right after you plant? So I'm guessing in my case, instead of moving my arms forward and blocking out, I pull with the bottom arm and move it right to my hips keeping it bent the whole way through?

NO!!! NEVER pull on the pole. EVER!

To answer your first question, the most important thing is to have a high, early plant. This means get your arms up completely BEFORE you take off. Your top arm should be straight no matter what (if you got your arms up), but depending on your grip width and pole length and other things, your bottom arm may not be completely straight. However, as long as it is up and over your head, you should be able to accomplish a good takeoff. Blocking out is usually termed when a vaulter pushes horizontally with their bottom arm, which leads to a LOT of problems (trust me!).

Well what about what this person posted?

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

3. Accurate simulation of the arm work after jump (take off) according to the continuous chain model. During an ideal performance of the vault according to the continuous chain model, the left arm of the vaulter engages into a pulling action immediately*** following the jump regardless of the grip height. Any delays or pushing of the pole considered a mistake according to that model. Obviously the pole climb is the perfect imitation of this action. Immediate pull action is very difficult to explain to a vaulter and in my experience it takes 18-24 months for a vaulter to understand, but once understood it will change their vault model forever. Good news is; the auto corrective exercise does not require understanding. The benefits can be achieved without understanding, but though sheer repetition.

Also I'm not blocking out in my plant, but my arm stays straight in the later part of the jump. So that's why I was wondering if I should maybe pull with the bottom arm? but I guess I shouldn't pull. But then what was that whole thing about that agapit posted?

[Cooleo111]

To be honest, I don't know very much at all about the continuous chain model, and you certainly pointed out to me one of the main differences, I guess. What I said about applying upward pressure applies to the Petrov/Bubka model, not to the continuous chain.

However, I would be interested to learn whether this "pulling" motion in the continuous chain was a pulling of the pole closer to the body of the vaulter, or rather a "rowing" motion. Pulling to me implies a bottom arm that is somewhat extended and using the bicep to bring the pole directly to the torso.

Sooch--after looking at your video a few times, it looks like the problem isn't with your arms. You hit a decent takeoff position, and I think your bottom arm would be up higher at takeoff if you were gripping higher on a longer pole. Instead, I think you should focus more on your swing instead of rowing your arms, like vaulterboy said. After you take off, you move the pole solely with your arms by rowing, and although this can be somewhat beneficial, you also need to engage in a whipping swing that gets your legs past verticle and your hips above your shoulders. If you watch any of the vaulters on stabhoch, you will see that when they initiate the swing, their arms straighten out, too. However, they continue the swing past where you are currently swinging. Try to work on your swing, and instead of getting your left hand to the outside of your hip, think about swinging so that your right hand ends up on the inside of your right hip. That will leave you in a MUCH better position.