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Okay, from the start, let me be clear what i'm talking about when i say 'rowing.'
I'm talking about the top hand ONLY, and actively pushing it forward (towards the back of the pit) during the entire vault. Really hope you all understand what i'm talking about on this...

That being said....

During my vault, as soon as I come off the ground i'm jamming my top hand forward in the aforementioned "row." I've always done that, it's how i get through poles and it's how i swing. So, during the entire vault, i'm actively pressing my top hand towards the back of the pit. My question is, Is this a bad thing?? I'm pretty sure it is.

I've been studying videos of my vault pretty hard, and it seems that by pressing my top hand like i do, it puts me in a bad position at the top of my swing. Its putting my center of gravity more towards the runway than towards the pit, and keeping me from a full inversion and "I-position" This side-by-side picture of me vs bubka is about the best way to show you what i'm talking about. I drew a red line from top hand and through the shoulder to better illustrate what i'm talking about:



See how his top hand/arm are more vertical, even leaned back a little.... and in contrast, how my top arm is leaned more towards the crossbar/pit? That's because i'm pressing it forward.

Anyway, What's the deal here? Am I wrong for pressing my top arm forward like that? Someone shed some light...

Sam, Driving your hand up and towards the back of the pit is a good thing. Send me a recent video and I'll put you side by side with Bubka or Mack and you can step frame by frame through both jumps and see what they are doing compared to what you are doing!!

ladyvolspvcoach wrote:Sam, Driving your hand up and towards the back of the pit is a good thing. Send me a recent video and I'll put you side by side with Bubka or Mack and you can step frame by frame through both jumps and see what they are doing compared to what you are doing!!

I'll see if i can grab a few videos from my vaulting session today.

But, i mean it seems like a pretty valid point. The picture shows me ending up in a bad position to get actually vertical... And the main thing i can think of causing me to be in that position is that forward press of my top hand and arm.

I definitely agree that pressing up is a good thing, but driving it forward like that immediately off the ground? Can't be good...

The move i'm talking about... Imagine you're standing with the pole planted above your head and the pole tip in the back of the box. You've got your top hand driven up as far as it can go. Now imagine pressing forward on the pole with your top hand, like you're driving it even harder into the back of the box. THAT'S the top hand motion/pressure i'm talking about, specifically. From the moment i get my hand up in a plant, its pushing forward like i just described thru the rest of the entire vault.

That sounds like you are being rigid in the shoulder girdle! That is NOT a good thing! It delays you swing and makes it harder to time up with the pole at maximum bend! Send me the vids and I'll Dartfish you!

What would happen to the position of your legs and feet if you were driving your shoulders towards the pad at that instant??

ladyvolspvcoach wrote:That sounds like you are being rigid in the shoulder girdle! That is NOT a good thing! It delays you swing and makes it harder to time up with the pole at maximum bend! Send me the vids and I'll Dartfish you!

I'll send you a couple today sir. They're from short approaches, and my last two strides are still huge.

altius wrote:What would happen to the position of your legs and feet if you were driving your shoulders towards the pad at that instant??

I would imagine it would bring them back further, in a better position?

looks to me like you answered your own question...

I've been studying videos of my vault pretty hard, and it seems that by pressing my top hand like i do, it puts me in a bad position at the top of my swing.

Thats exactly what it does. Lines you up perfect to shoot those feet straight into the pit instead of up and over a high bar. There are a few good vaulters that do push and block out like that but they compensate by pulling that left arm back in as they are inverting (i do not recommend learning to do that, only stating it is possible). Best thing is just to practice getting both hands up as high as possible over your head and keeping them there through the whole swing.

[quote]There are a few good vaulters that do push and block out like that but they compensate by pulling that left arm back in as they are inverting/quote]

Like Bubka, Hooker, Isenbeyeva ?

doug balcomb

dougb wrote:

There are a few good vaulters that do push and block out like that but they compensate by pulling that left arm back in as they are inverting/quote]

Like Bubka, Hooker, Isenbeyeva ?

doug balcomb

No, they don't.

[quote]No, they don't./quote]

Take a look at the cover of BTB.

doug balcomb

dougb wrote:

No, they don't./quote]

Take a look at the cover of BTB.

doug balcomb

at no point in bubkas vault is he pushing his left hand "forward'. At take off it is slightly bent then there are points where it appears it goes straight but it is straight 'up'.

but if you watch the angle of his right arm it is always pointed downard towards the mat from hand to arm pit... if he were to push with the left arm forward it would move the angle of his right arm towards the ground and behind back towards the runway, which never happens in his vault. The only time his arm angle becomes down straight at the ground is when he is completely upside down.

ladyvolspvcoach wrote:That sounds like you are being rigid in the shoulder girdle! That is NOT a good thing! It delays you swing and makes it harder to time up with the pole at maximum bend! Send me the vids and I'll Dartfish you!

Reading up on this 'tense/rigid shoulder girdle' a bit more, and it really sounds like what i've been doing. My shoulders are anything but elastic during my jump... How do i improve this?

*EDIT: Now that i'm thinking about it, last may i sustained a shoulder injury (rotator cuff impingement) that took me out of vaulting for over 6 months... it may be bad for me NOT to have a rigid set of shoulders... might injure myself? I don't know... Thoughts?