Goals?

[wfpv]

I think Altus and rainbowgirl explained what I was thinking about when I quit cross pretty well, but I see the other sides of it too... My mom didn't let me quit until she was sure I had a pland and I wasn't just giving up on running cause I wasn't good

[wfpv]

I swim too, so I don't think getting in shape and doing intervals and stuff is my big problem. I think it's harder to keep my legs strong, especially my calfs, during swim season. I've been doing the workout plans up to now, but the season starts tomorrow so I don't know how I'm going to do the workouts more than 2 or 3 times a week. Do any of you have some good advice for what I should do?

[rainbowgirl28]

Do sprints up stairs whenever you get a chance.

[grandevaulter]

I swim too, so I don't think getting in shape and doing intervals and stuff is my big problem. I think it's harder to keep my legs strong, especially my calfs, during swim season. I've been doing the workout plans up to now, but the season starts tomorrow

wfpv, There's nothing wrong with being a well rounded athlete. However, you should be gearing up for the indoor season. We start ours tomorrow with circuits, plyo's, weights and pole sprints. In Michigan our indoor meets start right after the first of the year. That's not too far off. If you are serious about vaulting you should hit some indoor meets, if it doesn't conflict with your swim meets. ( i like toe raises from the toe of a step, lowering down as far as possible and raising fully extended, add weights as required)

But look, what does an old fogy like me know about it - I have only spent fifty years of my life teaching folk to vault. But wait - in 1965 my team at Dr.Challoner's Grammar School in England was - arguably - the best school cross country team ever in Britain and I hold the senior coaching award of the British AAA in middle distance running.

Hey Altius, I truly appreciate your contribution to this forum. I understand that you coach world class athletes. We all benefit greatly from your knowledge and opinions. ( and those of the other elite coaches) Thank you for taking your time to make this a great forum. I was only three years old in 65 but I probably would have argued then too !

[wfpv]

I'm from nd and our indoor season starts in the beginning of march...right after swimming so I don't have to miss any meets!

[vquestpvc]

Just a coach's opinion after coaching track for over 30 years: successful long distance runners are born and perfected, however, good pole vaulters are made. And, only in great circumstances should an athlete do both; especially a high school athlete. Why? Because what it takes to be a successful distance runner takes considerable time on the road. Time on the road takes time away from vault reps. As its been said: "can't have your cake and eat it too". Besides, ever try to vault a PR after running a 4;40 mile? (high school of course). It is very discouraging for an athlete.

[grandevaulter]

successful long distance runners are born and perfected,

I totally disagree with this statement. Success is a variable that can only be judged based on ones own goals. I have observed our cross country coaches develop successful runners that seemed to have very little natural talent.

And, only in great circumstances should an athlete do both; especially a high school athlete.

I once again disagree.

I suppose that if you trained year round for 5k races

Four months of distance training will not affect your quick twitch muscles

State runner up division 4 pole vault 2011 also ran four years of cross and wrestled. Running cross did not stop him from being recruited in the vault.
2. Jordan B. , Hesperia, 14-2; vault. (mshaa archive)

97th Jordon B. * 17:38.2 Nov 1 MHSAA Div 4 Finals not a shabby 5k time for a pole vaulter. ( athleticnet)

You can selfishly use the cross workout to your benefit.

One cannot measure the benefits of the team experience and the daily regiment of mandatory workouts for high school student athletes. ( most kids do not have the discipline to do the individual workout) A good cross country coach will alter the work out for a pole vaulter that is coming just to stay in shape. As a track assistant and Junior high cross coach I had to bend the school administrators arm to keep the pole vault pit out into November. I used the pole vault pit for sprints and long jumps ( I make two lines and have the kids race each other and long jump on each bun and jog to the back of the line), running in place and hops up and down 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off . The kids loved it. ( because it was fun) After cross practice I meet with the high school vaulters and any of the junior high kids that are interested. Once cross season ended my pole vault attendance evaporated.

I think we need to remain open minded and cross the multiple sport lines ( at the high school level) and not discourage our athletes from participating in other sports.( We will always have the one sport athlete that can not get enough and that is fine) The athlete should benefit from their experiences and if we support their decisions and make ourselves available at the pole vault pit to accommodate this . All shall be fine. It will not harm the individual and creates interest from their team mates that may not otherwise venture into the vault.

[PV2020]

You can not measure the success of cross country training on pole vault by the achievements of a 14'2 pole vaulter. No one here has said you can not be a good pole vaulter and run cross country, just that you would be a better one if you did other training instead. I have seen a guy win the 2 mile in 9:30 and then double back to pole vault in 13'6. But not to sound really mean here or anything, but for a guy trying to train to be the best pole vaulter they can be 14'2 is not that very good, at least not as a standard to measure your training off of.

I was always a big hater of cross country because in high school I ran cross country in high school and would just run cross country and then switch to pole vaulting in the winter. Every year I would start off so slow and take for ever to get any speed. When I moved onto college it was all speed and power training, and I felt fast at the beginning of the year every year and improved quite rapidly because I went from being that skinny cross country kid to a much better athlete.

However there are benefits to 'conditioning runs'. In college we do 2-3 mile runs 2-3 times a week but they are followed by a hard workout of power cleans and snatch, and the other days we are doing sprint training. The long runs are just general recovery and conditioning days. Everyone on my team seems to be in great shape and conditioned, but they are still fast because we still did so much more 'fast twitch' things that the body knows not to make developing for the distance running the priority.

So this is to say a high school pole vaulter that wants to be on the cross country team to have someone around during their conditioning phase is not a problem if they only run with the distance guys like two or three times a week and then do their own sprint training and weight training away from the cross country guys. But training for 4 months to try and run the fastest 5k you can without gearing any training towards the vault will hurt your ability to be the best pole vaulter you can be.

I once again disagree.

I suppose that if you trained year round for 5k races

Four months of distance training will not affect your quick twitch muscles

State runner up division 4 pole vault 2011 also ran four years of cross and wrestled. Running cross did not stop him from being recruited in the vault.
2. Jordan B. , Hesperia, 14-2; vault. (mshaa archive)


One cannot measure the benefits of the team experience and the daily regiment of mandatory workouts for high school student athletes. ( most kids do not have the discipline to do the individual workout) A good cross country coach will alter the work out for a pole vaulter that is coming just to stay in shape. As a track assistant and Junior high cross coach I had to bend the school administrators arm to keep the pole vault pit out into November. I used the pole vault pit for sprints and long jumps ( I make two lines and have the kids race each other and long jump on each bun and jog to the back of the line), running in place and hops up and down 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off . The kids loved it. ( because it was fun) After cross practice I meet with the high school vaulters and any of the junior high kids that are interested. Once cross season ended my pole vault attendance evaporated.

I think we need to remain open minded and cross the multiple sport lines ( at the high school level) and not discourage our athletes from participating in other sports.( We will always have the one sport athlete that can not get enough and that is fine) The athlete should benefit from their experiences and if we support their decisions and make ourselves available at the pole vault pit to accommodate this . All shall be fine. It will not harm the individual and creates interest from their team mates that may not otherwise venture into the vault.

And yes it is good to do other sports. Being a better athlete is great and helps in the vault. But this is not cross country. You wan't to be faster, more explosive, and a better athlete, play wide receiver for your football team or striker on the soccer team. Heck, even in track just do other events. Long jump, high jump, hurdle, and sprint!

[grandevaulter]

( most kids do not have the discipline to do the individual workout) A good cross country coach will alter the work out for a pole vaulter that is coming just to stay in shape

You can not measure the success of cross country training on pole vault by the achievements of a 14'2 pole vaulter

That will get a look from NCAA D-1, a maybe from D-2 and a spot on a D-3 in the midwest. Add in the wrestling and cross accomplishments and you have a track coaches dream, someone that they can bring along . A 14'2" jump for a three sport athlete is pretty good. Had that kid worked on vault only, you probably have a 15'6".

I was always a big hater of cross country because in high school I ran cross country in high school

Most high school kids are not developed adequately to be D-1 athletes. Not all great high school cross runners are skinny. No need to hate.

So this is to say a high school pole vaulter that wants to be on the cross country team to have someone around during their conditioning phase is not a problem if they only run with the distance guys like two or three times a week and then do their own sprint training and weight training away from the cross country guys. But training for 4 months to try and run the fastest 5k you can without gearing any training towards the vault will hurt your ability to be the best pole vaulter you can be.

You can selfishly use the cross workout to your benefit.

Obviously 2020, you didn't read my last post very well, I don't think you are a high school coach or a middle school coach. If you were you may see some logic to my thinking. I'm not a collegiate vaulter but do not dispute your training regiment or methods. Because high school and college athletics and most of the athletes in those two groups are different,you are comparing apples and oranges.

[vquestpvc]

Wow! This young man's simple question of "setting goals" for the pole vault has taken on a life of its own. So, based on his question, again I agree he should not run cross country if he feels he needs to devote more time to developing his pole vaulting skills. It has absolutely nothing to do with the physiology of training. Of course run cross country for a high school season won't effect his fast twitch muscle; fast twitch muscles are relative for most high school athletes. However, his interests are with the pole vault and thus he should devote as much time as he can to developing vaulting skills. My prior comment regarding "long distance runners are born and perfected" simply means there is a genetic formula which allows an individual to be successful at distance running. There is, however, no such formula for vaulting. A good pole vaulter is "made" through continuous skill building reps. I absolutely agree that a good distance runner can be successful at the pole vault. But, success in one event can have an adverse affect on the other. And quite frankly, it will be the distance event more adversely affected because one needs mileage to be successful (that is if he or she is not just running laps, but competing). And, try to having a vaulter do a vault workout after running a 10 miler or 10x800 repeats. Of course I'm referring completely to "average" high school athletes as I haven't had many great athletes over the years.

The original post is lucky that he has a coach to help lead him through skill development and set goals. Development will be a process and your goals will change. It is difficult not to get caught up in wanting to clear greater heights, but technique can suffer. For example, being more concerned about inverting and not working on an effective approach can limit your success. Focus more on perfecting your skills and the height will come. Of course set a height goal, but remember what will get you there..................good technique through continuous practice.

[grandevaulter]

Wow! This young man's simple question of "setting goals" for the pole vault has taken on a life of its own.

Appears to me he is looking for support for quitting cross and got it. He could probably work on both and still get homework done and play a video game or two.

again I agree he should not run cross country if he feels he needs to devote more time to developing his pole vaulting skills. It has absolutely nothing to do with the physiology of training.

However, his interests are with the pole vault and thus he should devote as much time as he can to developing vaulting skills

I swim too, so I don't think getting in shape and doing intervals and stuff is my big problem. I think it's harder to keep my legs strong, especially my calfs, during swim season.

Now WFPV is going to find time to do his pole vault practice and participate on the swim team but felt it necessary to quit cross. What ????? I've heard this song and dance before. Finishing something is a good habit, quitting isn't. I think I've heard every excuse.

[wfpv]

I'm not making excuses. I asked how to keep my legs in shape over swimming cause it's a problem I have every year. I get that people have different opinions about cross but I'm more focused right now on what I can still control for next season. I don't want to come across as being rude though so just so you know I do appreciate all of the advice you've given me.