Eyes at takeoff

This is a forum to discuss pole vault technique as it relates to intermediate level pole vaulting.
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Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby littlewilson85 » Fri May 31, 2013 10:39 am

I have a vaulter that constantly has his eyes to the box during plant and takeoff causing his hips to stay low during takeoff. I believe that getting his eyes/head up more at plant and takeoff would create a better takeoff and the ability to raise his grip and jump on bigger poles. I have tried several drills, but just looking for some suggestions for others.

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby CoachEric » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:35 pm

Walking plant drills, focus on head position, slightly above neutral. Have him do about ten million repetitions, and the problem will correct itself over time.

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby vquestpvc » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:37 am

Gymnasts and divers have focal points throughout various routines and therefore, why shouldn't a pole vaulter. To suggest a "neutral" position is a little vague; it's like telling high school track athletes to run 80% during a workout. Let me suggest that at take off a vaulter should focus the eyes on the top hand. The first reason is to correct your vaulter's problem of staring at the box with something more defined to look toward. Secondly, by looking at the top hand at take off, multiple positions may be seen throughout the vault. For instances, one can see the feet go back into a cover position as the eyes are already directed to the top hand on the pole. Additionally, the top hand can be seen as it connects with the hip as one thrusts up and pulls. Finally, the vaulter may see the top hand pass the face as it extends off the pole. Now I'm not suggesting that a vaulter will see all these positions throughout a vault, but how will one know if it is not tried. We will work on trying to see various positions in practice; the more the better.

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:26 pm

I don't understand this at all. If your top hand is above your head on takeoff, why would you want to look straight up at it? :confused: Surely you must mean something different than this?

During the plant, I think the eyes should be focusing on the box - to ensure that the pole tip drops into it correctly. Right after that, they should not be looking up or down - they should be looking directly forward (or "neutral"). So I agree with "neutral position". Also realize that in order to look down at the box during the plant, you don't need to rotate your entire head down - just your eyes.

I understand that you don't think that a "neutral position" is prescriptive enough, but I think it is. When your eyes are in this so-called neutral position, what I'm really saying is that it's not the EYES that should be focusing - it's more "full-body awareness" with all of your senses, including sight, sound, tactile feel, and timing. For example, you don't need to look to know where your top hand is - you should be "feeling" where it is.

Being too prescriptive can be problematic too, just as not being prescriptive enough can be problematic. Mainly, you don't want to confuse the vaulter with too much - unless you're trying to fix a specific flaw. In this particular case, Wilson wrote:

littlewilson85 wrote:I have a vaulter that constantly has his eyes to the box during plant and takeoff causing his hips to stay low during takeoff.

My opinion on this is that the vaulter has his eyes exactly where they should be - and if he didn't, he might not drop the pole into the box correctly!

Wilson, you have drawn the conclusion that his focus on the box is "causing his hips to stay low during takeoff". I'm sure you know your vaulter best, but I'm just not convinced of this cause-effect relationship. My gut feeling is that there must be some other reason that his hips are staying too low - which doesn't have much to do with where his eyes are focused. What else might be causing this?

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby IAmTheWalrus » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:10 pm

Kirk I must disagree. When asked where his point of focus was. Bubka himself is quoted as saying "To the front, many jumpers look at the box, the box doesn't move, it is always there. I think it has to do with mental pressure or being scared. "

His logic is undeniable, the box doesn't move :P . Seriously though, I have found that when looking at the box (these jumps can be identified easily because my chin looks like its about to touch my chest after takeoff) my swing starts later. When I keep my eyes at or slightly above neutral, my swing is much much faster. I wouldn't recommend looking up (like at the bar) at takeoff. That would probably lead to leaning back.
-Nick

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby vquestpvc » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:41 pm

Well as usual, there are 87 different ways to do 87 different things in the vault. Take a good look at Bubka vaulting and see where his eyes are focused. It is constantly recommended on PVP to utilize a high bar to simulate the action of vaulting. Try jumping to a high bar without looking at it and swinging the leg/s up into a Bubka. Good luck with that one!

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:20 pm

Sorry, but I think we're in 3-way disagreement here. Maybe even 4-way, if you include Bubka (unless he was joking or was misquoted/mistranslated).

It's true that the box doesn't move, but the pole tip is moving forwards at ~9 m/s forwards (and so is the vaulter), and the pole's also dropping down at some rate of decline. So the box may not be moving, but the vaulter must ensure that the pole tip ends up in the box! This is going to be quite difficult if you're not watching what you're doing! Literally! :idea:

I suppose what Bubka might have been inferring is that he used his peripheral vision to keep an eye on the box. That's certainly plausible, and I accept that interpretation much more than what was quoted above by Walrus.

vquestpvc wrote: Take a good look at Bubka vaulting and see where his eyes are focused. It is constantly recommended on PVP to utilize a high bar to simulate the action of vaulting. Try jumping to a high bar without looking at it and swinging the leg/s up into a Bubka.

Vquest, I don't think you're making a fair comparison at all. And it's also unclear where YOU think Bubka's eyes are focused - just tell us what YOU think. Maybe you got it wrong? I doubt very much if he's ever looking up at his top hand - not even with peripheral vision.

He KNOWS where his top hand is, because his body is connected to his top hand, and he can FEEL where it is - he doesn't need to look. That's obvious. What am I missing? :confused:

But when you jump up to a highbar, you MUST look to see where it is, or you may miss it - because unlike the pole, the highbar isn't already connected to the hands. Duh! :dazed:

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby altius » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:46 am

That is what he said and that is what he meant. Too many vaulters take off flat because they are still looking down as they leave the ground - pretty hard to jump up when you are looking down. You should know where you are without looking at the box - if you have an organised run up - see the appropriate chapter in BTB.
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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:39 pm

altius wrote: Too many vaulters take off flat because they are still looking down as they leave the ground ...

I agree that once you've planted the pole in the box, there's no need to keep looking at the box. And I notice that you said "still" looking down, so I'm sure you agree that your eyes must first be focused on the box, to make sure you plant the pole safely into it.

altius wrote: ... pretty hard to jump up when you are looking down. You should know where you are without looking at the box ...

I would say that it's pretty hard to jump AT ALL if you don't get the pole into the box. And it's pretty hard to do this if you're not looking at what you're doing!

If you don't want to look down at all, I don't think you need to tilt your head. I think that all you need to do is glance down (keeping your head level). That's what I meant by "peripheral vision". But I think "glance down" is a better way to describe it.

Vquest was saying that you should look up at your top hand, but of course that's not right either! I think you should MOSTLY be looking straight ahead, but you MUST glance down to ensure that the pole drops into the box correctly. It's very dangerous if you don't do this!

It really seems so ridiculous that I even have to argue this point - it should be obvious! :idea:

KirkB wrote:During the plant, I think the eyes should be focusing on the box - to ensure that the pole tip drops into it correctly. Right after that, they should not be looking up or down - they should be looking directly forward (or "neutral"). So I agree with "neutral position". Also realize that in order to look down at the box during the plant, you don't need to rotate your entire head down - just your eyes.

I think I explained all this in my first reply to this thread already. Is there something in this quote that you disagree with? :confused:

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby Chaebo » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:33 pm

Brad Walker stated in one of his Webinars that if he were to teacher the vaulters of today one thing it would be head up at take off. I have noticed large improvements in drilling and vaulting alike with vaulters posture and explosiveness in the take off simply because head position. I have found that many vaulters "beginning level atleast" use their eyes and attempt to feel(Reach) for the back of the box because their visual cues see at the moment the last step is being initiated. I believe from personal experience when jumping and by watching my vaulters that when coming to the last step the vaulters falsely see themselves as being out and reach forward for the last step by leaning and/or pushing the arms forward coming into the last step with both resulting in a long last step which in turn means lower hips.

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby Skyfly » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:59 am

I completely agree that having the eyes focused on the box and/or the head down at take off will negative effect and lead to a much flatter jump.

Besides being a pole vault coach, I am also a skydiving coach. When teaching students to land their parachute, it is always emphasized to look at where you want to go NOT where you don't want to go. This is emphasized because there is an incredible natural tendency for the human body to auto correct itself in the direction of the eyes/head. Many a skydiver has managed to crash into the lone tree in an otherwise open field because they were focusing their attention on the obstacle instead of their intended destination (target fixation). I believe that the same effects can be seen at take off for pole vaulting. Fixating on a place that you do not want to go (the box) will ultimately lead to the body being more prone to go in that direction and having a less effective take off jump.

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Re: Eyes at takeoff

Unread postby vquestpvc » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:54 am

It seems it will never end in that the pole vault is separated from the other jumps in track; most particularly the high and long jumps. In both the HJ and LJ a penultimate step should be taught as to lower the center of gravity, while maintaining speed, in preparation to put the last step down "through" the ground to jump up. In the case of the HJ there is no take off board, but of course in the LJ there is such. And, most coaches teach their LJers not to focus on the board; the LJers wants to be "tall" at take off. This, I believe, is what is lost in the pole vault. It too is a jumping event where lowering the center of gravity while maintaining speed is important. Having noted that point, as Altius indicated, one should have an "organised run up" which I'm assuming includes a progressive count leading to take off. And so, a vaulter should not have to look at the box right at take off, but instead take off on a count; similar to the long jump. Otherwise, as also noted, the last step may be one that is reaching because the individual is "steering" toward the box making it difficult to jump up. Just a thought here, but it is this coaches belief that most poles break because the vaulter takes off low as a result of looking at the box.

Further regarding where to look at take off, I teach a progression that includes a jumping take off extending off the toe at which point the swing will begin. At this point, the vaulter will look to the top hand. I don't believe that the vault can be taught as phases, but a continuous action. The action, however, is so quick that a vaulter needs to move forward through this action. Therefore, I use various cues to connect this action. Looking to the top hand is one of those cues.


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