Pole Push off

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
KYLE ELLIS
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Unread postby KYLE ELLIS » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:27 am

EIUvltr wrote:A "perfect" pushoff is the result of a good rowing of the left arm down the chord of the pole AND a powerful swing, which is the result of an active takeoff foot and high plant, which is the result of an out takeoff, which is the result of a powerful and quick last few steps, which is the result of a good run, which is the result of lotsa practice.

So ya see, Practice makes perfect.

...and genetics help too.


i disagree. its getting on the biggest pole possible and having the least amount of energy leaks as possible.
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Unread postby EIUvltr » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:38 am

KYLE ELLIS wrote:
EIUvltr wrote:A "perfect" pushoff is the result of a good rowing of the left arm down the chord of the pole AND a powerful swing, which is the result of an active takeoff foot and high plant, which is the result of an out takeoff, which is the result of a powerful and quick last few steps, which is the result of a good run, which is the result of lotsa practice.

So ya see, Practice makes perfect.

...and genetics help too.


i disagree. its getting on the biggest pole possible and having the least amount of energy leaks as possible.


how profound.
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Unread postby Tim McMichael » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:21 am

Here is a hint: People who push off a long way have the handle of their poles moving towards the crossbar earlier in the jump. Most vaulters flatten out a little in the middle of the jump. The bend of the pole swings to the side and the athlete moves more horizontally than vertically. Vaulters who push off forever have a very different look to the way their poles move. The bend stays more in front of them and the pole starts to come back earlier in the jump.

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Unread postby MightyMouse » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:28 am

EIUvltr wrote:...and genetics help too.


I’m pretty sure you just added this as a side comment, but this idea is always thrown around in speed and strength discussions, I really don’t think it does any good. It sounds more like the response a coach gives when his athlete isn’t improving rather than something constructive. Just because someone hasn’t gotten faster in months, or a years worth of training doesn’t mean that they couldn’t put everything together the next day.

Just my overly optimistic opinion
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Unread postby Bubba PV » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:25 am

Mighty Mouse- you're the kind of guy I would bet on. Hang in there and stay after it!!

WOW! Lots of good points, especially the one about keeping the arc in front. A lot is not taught about the top of the vault because if you do everything else right it’s supposed to just happen. I think to a very large degree that’s true but having taken tons of big push off jumps over the years (like many of you), I can say that I work to guide myself up the pole while staying behind it. Once your hips are past the pole you can only go out and if the arc swings to the side more than to the corner of the pit cut out, it’s like having your body released though a revolving door – the arc spins to the side and lets you pass through without the lift. I know from some of the people posting, whom I greatly admire and respect, that you guys have your own methods that work for you, but for a kid trying to break through, here’s my simple formula.

At 53 I don’t have the blow I used to have on the runway so the technical portion is more important than ever. When I asked Pat Manson earlier this year what he did this year to jump 18’ for the 21st consecutive year he responded with a list of technical issues as that’s where you can gain the most efficiency. In fact, this summer when my buddy, Alan Launder, Beginner to Bubka, author visited to do a clinic at The Woodlands HS for me, he said the same – you’re a very good technical model for kids but if you seriously want to compete you’ll have to step up the dynamics of your swing through the top, and hit the speed and strength harder. That’s exactly what I’m working on. Sorry, it’s off the top of my head but these are my quick links for demonstration.

Step one is building the ab strength and quickness to be able to get PAST vertical in order to cover the hands. Here’s a link to the drill I use for that purpose. A pole or a high bar only let you swing back so far whereas high P-bars or monkey bars allow you to swing past where you would be stopped on a pole. http://www.bubbapv.com/Pages/GetVertical.htm

I was frustrated with seeing kids in great positions only to flag off instead of going up the pole. We tried all kinds of stupid things including moving the standards way in but the bottom line is that the pole needs to get past vertical to deliver maximum speed and you must be on the runway side of it to exploit the extension up the pole. Past vertical? When you throw a baseball, hit as tennis ball or even a golf ball, the power isn’t at the vertical – that’s the contact point – its PAST vertical. The great UCLA coach and friend for many years, Anthony Curran got me going on this drill. Please click on the 2005 version for a closer look.
http://www.bubbapv.com/Pages/drill.htm First, you have to swing past the pole to get on the runway side of it, so this ties in with the drill above where you learn to swing past your normal stopping point. The other thing I like about it is that if you don’t pull/turn you can’t do the drill, so for those who flag because you turn away from your hands with straight arms, this will fix you.

Finally, if a drill cannot readily be seen in the vault it is not a drill worth doing. See if you can find the drill in this vault. http://www.bubbapv.com/Pages/bsbeach.htm The payoff is pretty obvious. Sorry for the old shots but I’m out the door for a meeting. Here’s one of Borya Celentano in practice applying the same principals to jump 16’ with a 13’ 8â€Â
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Unread postby jcoover » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:31 pm

that animation of borya is awesome... really good technically especially with such a small grip!!! he still manages to get a really high bend and get on top of the bend. also, the pole lays right across his thighs at the top of the vault, which is something i've been working on for close to a year now. not to mention his top is sweet. not a bad jump at all... what is it like 36'' grip efficiency? not too shabby from a small grip...
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Unread postby BethelPV » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:20 am

What if you don't want to get past verticle? Is there really a need to surpass being verticle, or should you attempt to swing to inversion and then hold that position? Just a question to pose and wondering what your reasons are for your answers.

My personal opinion is swing to inversion is better than swinging past verticle, because every move your make past verticle is wasted time. You can cover the pole fine if you have the body awareness and strength to hold tight in your core and ride the pole up, spiraling around it. The goal is to reach the bar as quick as possible for most energy conversion, and the easiest way to do that is to continue to move up, not back down the runway...

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Unread postby Bubba PV » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:01 am

I think that's a really good question BethelPV. I like to train past vertical to assure that I, or my vaulter will get to vertical in the first place. There seems to be a built in mental system that slows or stops them right about the time they are getting to where they need to be. It's a personal choice.

Borya was amazing as a technician. He got out of Top Gun school a few months ago and sent me a neat video of him landing a jet on an aircraft carrier. We got together right after his sophomore year in high school when his PR was 13’. When we got done he had jumped 18’ 10 ½â€Â
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Unread postby jcoover » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:04 pm

wow. sounds like a really fun and positive guy to train with! do you have anymore animations or videos of his jumps on your site or any others? i'd like to see more!
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Unread postby Bubba PV » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:21 pm

I need to capture some. I've got tons of video including his very 1st month at practice. He was on a 1425 and had the standards on ZERO. He had this perfect move where he wrapped around under the bar and then spread his legs to hit the front buns. Reckless abandon on the swing is why I agreed to coach him in the first place. After a few years we ended up coaching each other and remain friends today. He retired in 2000. Great guy!! Bubba
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Unread postby EIUvltr » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:13 am

MightyMouse wrote:
EIUvltr wrote:...and genetics help too.


I’m pretty sure you just added this as a side comment, but this idea is always thrown around in speed and strength discussions, I really don’t think it does any good. It sounds more like the response a coach gives when his athlete isn’t improving rather than something constructive. Just because someone hasn’t gotten faster in months, or a years worth of training doesn’t mean that they couldn’t put everything together the next day.

Just my overly optimistic opinion


more like naive opinion
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Unread postby KYLE ELLIS » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:29 pm

i agree if genetics had nothing to do with it, then everyone would jump 19+ and run 10flat 100's. i know alot of guys who bust themselves everyday and arent "elite". and i know some guys who half-ass it and are incredible. ask Donald Thomas how much genetics played in his first track meet in his life.
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