Ways Equipment Can Influence Technique

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
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golfdane
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Unread postby golfdane » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:09 pm

vaultwest wrote:Since I have not seen this item I am not 100% sure of this but my money would say that what you have is a sliding box and instead of saying it is impossible to use I would recommend that you learn to use it and thus become a more proficient athlete in your planting mechanics.
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You are thinking about something like this:
http://www.everythingtrackandfield.com/ ... ryID_E_167

I sincerely doubt, that this is what Spike is talking about, but I'm equally puzzled by his description.

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Unread postby powerplant42 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:04 pm

Yeah it didn't sound like he meant that it slid...
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Unread postby AeroVault » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:18 pm

That box is in the category for "In-Ground Equipment". I'd never trust that to actually jump on, especially since I've seen them break from just slide box drills. Scary.

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Unread postby spike gibeault » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:35 pm

it is not a sliding box, it is an inground box, that was made out of fiberglass and suck into concrete
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Unread postby Tim McMichael » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:59 pm

superpipe wrote:Question. The depth of the plant box was mentioned as something to be aware of. Plant box specs are hard rules just like not climbing the pole during your vault right? It's a matter of a legal vault vs. an illegal vault. It's one thing to not have your standards calibrated, but an illegal plant box is illegal. Misplacend standards ( within the legal range ) don't constitute an illegal vault, but a plant box that doesn't meet specs definitely constitutes an illegal vault right?

Don't mean to pick apart the discussion because I thinks it's interesting to think about the equipment influence. Just trying to separate influence vs. legality.

We actually have a local high school that put in a brand new track and the idiots installed the plant box level with the ground before they laid the inch or so of final rubber surface. This is technically an illegal facility correct?


This is absolutely right. Joe Dial and I were talking about this just this weekend. He told me that just before the NCAA championships in Austin his senior year, he called the coaches at Texas and made that exact argument. The box there was over an inch deep, and he always had a tough time competing at that facility because he practiced on a regulation box. They fixed the box, and he won the meet, while several athletes who were used to the facility no-heighted.

He also made a point that I had not thought about. This is a safety issue. If athletes practice at a facility that has a very deep box and then go to a meet where the box is legal, they will come up short on poles that they are used to blowing out. We were watching this very thing actually happen at a meet when we were discussing this. It scared the hell out of us to watch all of the athletes from one school consistently land close to the box. Joe and I were both familiar with this school's home facility, and the box there is deep and the runway is downhill.

When I was training at OU, they resurfaced the track in preparation for hosting the Olympic Festival. I actually found out the day they were doing the runways and helped them set the box a half inch high from the concrete foundation so it would be level when they put the surface down. That was the only way I could be sure it would be right. The construction people who build tracks don't necessarily know the rules and certainly don't know how significant the box depth is to the event. But I found that they were more than happy to work with me to get it right.

I think it is a shame to spend tens of thousands of dollars making pits larger and then ignore this issue that is so easy to fix and has such a significant impact on the athlete's ability to penetrate safely into the pit.
Last edited by Tim McMichael on Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:05 am

Tim McMichael wrote:I think it is a shame to spend tens of thousands of dollars making pits larger and then ignore this issue that is so easy to fix and has such a significant impact on the athlete's ability to penetrate safely into the pit.


You can adjust for any box. Once a box has been set it is extremely expensive to make adjustments to the facility. It is important to be aware of these issues and know how to make the proper adjustments to grip and pole selection.

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Unread postby Tim McMichael » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:32 am

rainbowgirl28 wrote:
Tim McMichael wrote:I think it is a shame to spend tens of thousands of dollars making pits larger and then ignore this issue that is so easy to fix and has such a significant impact on the athlete's ability to penetrate safely into the pit.


You can adjust for any box. Once a box has been set it is extremely expensive to make adjustments to the facility. It is important to be aware of these issues and know how to make the proper adjustments to grip and pole selection.


I guess expensive is a relative term. A day of work with a jackhammer, some concrete, a runway patch and a new box will get the job done. A lot of schools have the resources in their maintenance department to do this, though I also realize that many don't, and sometimes you are stuck with what you have. When the box is easy to fix is when the workers are actually building the track and have all of these tools and the expertise to use them on site.

And I hate to disagree, but I have encountered boxes that were extremely difficult to adjust to. I am talking about adjustments in pole size, hand grip, and timing that I would never expect anyone but a world class vaulter to be able to make. I was at a huge meet in Brazil where the box was home-made out of wood. I couldn't penetrate at all and no-heighted and was never invited back, and Dean Starkey made the right adjustments and jumped 19' 4".

And what about athletes who don't have the poles in the bag to make these changes? If an inch shallow box means at least two pole sizes softer and an inch deep box means at least two sizes bigger, not to mention the influence of wind and runway grade, you need at least six if not eight poles to be ready for all contingencies. That is how many I carried for these very reasons. I know very few high schools that have even this many poles period, let alone in a consistent series and a complete set for each athlete. But you are right that knowing what adjustments to make is the most important thing. I will probably do another post describing the ones I know, even if I couldn't always make them work. :(

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Unread postby achtungpv » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:59 am

Tim McMichael wrote:He also made a point that I had not thought about. This is a safety issue. If athletes practice at a facility that has a very deep box and then go to a meet where the box is legal, they will come up short on poles that they are used to blowing out.


Back after the Kevin Dare Incident, there was a webinar discussion about it that was streamed on the Web...I can't remember all the participates but it was a lot of vault coaches.

Dial brought up the fact that the pictures he'd seen showed that Penn State had a roll out runway on top of the regular surface giving the box around 3/4" in extra depth assuming it wasn't deep already. He was basically ignored for even suggesting it could have been a contributing factor.
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Unread postby Tim McMichael » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:39 am

achtungpv wrote:
Tim McMichael wrote:He also made a point that I had not thought about. This is a safety issue. If athletes practice at a facility that has a very deep box and then go to a meet where the box is legal, they will come up short on poles that they are used to blowing out.


Back after the Kevin Dare Incident, there was a webinar discussion about it that was streamed on the Web...I can't remember all the participates but it was a lot of vault coaches.

Dial brought up the fact that the pictures he'd seen showed that Penn State had a roll out runway on top of the regular surface giving the box around 3/4" in extra depth assuming it wasn't deep already. He was basically ignored for even suggesting it could have been a contributing factor.


Yep, He was really frustrated by that. Think about it this way: the most a coach can add to penetration with a push on the back is two to three pole sizes, and we outlawed it as an unsafe practice in meets because of this.

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Unread postby spill21 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:38 pm

The box had a huge effect on my vaulting this past week, the box we were using was rusted and had rust bumps all over it, and when I would plant the butt plug would literally get stuck about half way up on the slant and when I would bock back the pressure put on the plug was enough to bump it down the rest of the way in the box. needless to say this jacked up my jumping so at a meet wher the box is like this what does one need to do to stay safe?
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Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:45 pm

spill21 wrote:The box had a huge effect on my vaulting this past week, the box we were using was rusted and had rust bumps all over it, and when I would plant the butt plug would literally get stuck about half way up on the slant and when I would bock back the pressure put on the plug was enough to bump it down the rest of the way in the box. needless to say this jacked up my jumping so at a meet wher the box is like this what does one need to do to stay safe?


If you can do anything to smooth it out that might help, but if it's messing you up like that, I wouldn't jump there.

If it's catching on the front slant of the box, that's just a really bad box. If it's catching on the back of the box, you're probably planting late/under, so fixing that would probably help more than anything.

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Unread postby spill21 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:05 pm

yeah its at the back, maybe it was the pole I was using(it was longer than the pole I'm use to, but the box sucked, the pit was great though, a little hard but great
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