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DJ, thanks for explaining the theory. I helped me understand it better.

dj wrote:hey

the "MID" chart numbers fit everyone at every level.........

How about V. Chistiakov 6'6" tall and Scott Huffman 5'7" tall???

Do they have the same cadence?

LOL

Lol it must be difficult repeating yourself so much for the sake of Americans in the search of quick and easy answers.

vault3rb0y wrote:Lol it must be difficult repeating yourself so much for the sake of Americans in the search of quick and easy answers.

No need to bring nationalism here. I love America! Sorry for the comment.

I must begin by saying that dj spent a decent amount of time through PMs trying to help me understand this. Yet, I've been having trouble employing the chart with undeniably favorable results. I am from a scientific background, and although new to coaching (5 years now) have been around the sport for a long time and have been a student of it since I was a vaulter in high school. What I have been having trouble doing is matching my students to their so called MIDs. I'd like to introduce a case study of sorts for all to comment upon. I coach a wonderful young athlete, sophomore boy, 5'3" 122 lbs. His current PR is 14'2" (which was done in our not so great Ohio weather and should be 14'6" soon in nice weather). This was done from a 6 left approach and a grip height of 13'. Considering box depth thats nearly a two foot push, pretty amazing all things considered. But what I must say is that I have had more success in finding an average MID for him based on a run on the track with a pole carry and just converting it over to the runway. Just a statement, but anyone's thoughts are welcome.

OH-IOvaulter wrote:I must begin by saying that dj spent a decent amount of time through PMs trying to help me understand this. Yet, I've been having trouble employing the chart with undeniably favorable results. I am from a scientific background, and although new to coaching (5 years now) have been around the sport for a long time and have been a student of it since I was a vaulter in high school. What I have been having trouble doing is matching my students to their so called MIDs. I'd like to introduce a case study of sorts for all to comment upon. I coach a wonderful young athlete, sophomore boy, 5'3" 122 lbs. His current PR is 14'2" (which was done in our not so great Ohio weather and should be 14'6" soon in nice weather). This was done from a 6 left approach and a grip height of 13'. Considering box depth thats nearly a two foot push, pretty amazing all things considered. But what I must say is that I have had more success in finding an average MID for him based on a run on the track with a pole carry and just converting it over to the runway. Just a statement, but anyone's thoughts are welcome.

I personally use mid mark as a tool to correctly identify whether the beginning of the run up(before the plant begins) was consistent. And yes we transfer the mid from the full sprint with plant and jump exercises on the track.

On the track, without the box, there are no significant interruptions to performing the plant and jump correctly. That mid-mark has a very good correlation to the real mid with experience vaulter. However, novices would have a bigger deviation.

P.S. I am not dogging dj mid mark chart. I just think that this is a one in a thousand exercises one may do to increase the “personal library of movement “. It is, in my opinion, not a panacea to becoming a great vaulter nor having the key to the modern understanding of the vault.

If I may ask a question about it I'd like to bring in a bit of minutia from your Manifesto thread, as it would affect the timing of the plant. If the last 3 left strides of a run are covered in approximately 1.5 seconds and if a pole tip allowed to drop from vertical also takes approximately 1.5 seconds to hit the ground, would the goal of the left hand during those 3 lefts be to merely guide the pole into the box and provide "zero lift" till the time in which the right hand raises the pole to parallel? It seems if an athlete is taught that they are allowing the pole to fall during the last x number of steps as opposed to being responsible for carrying the pole, then less late plants result. Is that making any sense?

OH-IOvaulter wrote:If I may ask a question about it I'd like to bring in a bit of minutia from your Manifesto thread, as it would affect the timing of the plant. If the last 3 left strides of a run are covered in approximately 1.5 seconds and if a pole tip allowed to drop from vertical also takes approximately 1.5 seconds to hit the ground, would the goal of the left hand during those 3 lefts be to merely guide the pole into the box and provide "zero lift" till the time in which the right hand raises the pole to parallel? It seems if an athlete is taught that they are allowing the pole to fall during the last x number of steps as opposed to being responsible for carrying the pole, then less late plants result. Is that making any sense?

We have built our plan imitations around the idea that the left arm is guiding the pole into the box and simply extends along THE STREIGHT LINE from the pole carry position into the position at the end of the plant (when take-off foot first touches the ground). One simple uncomplicated movement of the left arm while pole rotating around the left wrist.

hye

it's a coaching tool.. an extremely good one because it can help bring out the correct physics...

Since I believe that stride length is created by applying force to the surface by cutting down the ground time and not by the length of the in-seam… yes I feel their “MIDâ€

[quote="dj"]… yes I feel their “MIDâ€

Roman

I have never questions your knowledge or background..

All I have tried to do is help everyone get the correct, fast, natural run…

In 100m sprint, due to natural selection and really much simpler model of the event as compared with the pole vault, the natural frequencies of the 100m top runners are expected to be much closer to each other than in pole vault.

I don’t think natural selection has anything to do with the physics of “speedâ€

[quote="dj"]Top level athletes in any/every event will have similar “natural frequenciesâ€