Trail Leg- Tuck or Petrov?

[NZ Vaulter]

From reading the description I was thinking of a different drill that isn't on that page, but the back up rise which Volteur was talking about can only be performed on a backswing, a front up rise e.g. on parralel bars, rings is performed on the front/ tap swing. On the highbar this is more of a clearhip circle to handstand, on the rings this is either a giant (straight armed) or a Falger to Handstand performed with bent arms and more of a piked tap/uprise to handstand. This is easier to perform on the rings, the more pre-stretch tap to inversion the smoother/more lift to handstand you get the less tap the more you have to muscle it through, a good indication of the amount of tap/swing speed of the athlete.

[baggettpv]

I taught Dud how to do these skills while he was at Clackamas CC and in high school. The video was taken at Bell's place in Jonesboro. There is a progession in the gymnastics manuals for skills.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[rainbowgirl28]

I've never tried that particular drill. In fact, I'd be a little chicken to try it, because swinging backwards after stalling out of a giant scares me. It seems to me that your fingers wouldn't stay firm on the bar. But like I say, I've never tried it, and I see that Dub had no problems executing it. I guess you just have to train your fingers to keep a firm grip, so they don't unravel.

He's strapped in, no fear of losing your grip!

Google "strap bar"

[volteur]

From reading the description I was thinking of a different drill that isn't on that page, but the back up rise which Volteur was talking about can only be performed on a backswing, a front up rise e.g. on parralel bars, rings is performed on the front/ tap swing. On the highbar this is more of a clearhip circle to handstand, on the rings this is either a giant (straight armed) or a Falger to Handstand performed with bent arms and more of a piked tap/uprise to handstand. This is easier to perform on the rings, the more pre-stretch tap to inversion the smoother/more lift to handstand you get the less tap the more you have to muscle it through, a good indication of the amount of tap/swing speed of the athlete.

hey NZ vaulter. I know i said i didn't understand what you have written but i'm working on it!

When you say " On the highbar this is more of a clearhip circle to handstand" are you still referring to the front uprise?

Also could you explain a falger.

And "the more pre-stretch tap to inversion the smoother/more lift to handstand"
- are you saying the more prestretch you get the more effective the tap? And the more effective the tap the lesser need to muscle the movement.
- and do you see this as the same as when you are vaulting?

cheers in slight confusion

[NZ Vaulter]

hey NZ vaulter. I know i said i didn't understand what you have written but i'm working on it!

When you say " On the highbar this is more of a clearhip circle to handstand" are you still referring to the front uprise?

Also could you explain a falger.

And "the more pre-stretch tap to inversion the smoother/more lift to handstand"
- are you saying the more prestretch you get the more effective the tap? And the more effective the tap the lesser need to muscle the movement.
- and do you see this as the same as when you are vaulting?

cheers in slight confusion volteur

Hey Volteur

When I was referring to the clearhip to H/S I was trying to relate another similar movement to another apparatus. This other apparatur was the rings and Parralel Bars and because there is no hip circle on these the nearest movement perfomed is a Felge also known as a Peach to support or H/S or Basket Swing to H/S. I was taught it as a Felge(I spelt it wrong in my previous post) http://gymnasticscoaching.com/?p=6192&a ... share-this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ1VEftxwRA

The Front up rise is another move where a reversed C tap is used then driving the shoulders and hips forward to Support.

And "the more pre-stretch tap to inversion the smoother/more lift to handstand"
- are you saying the more prestretch you get the more effective the tap? And the more effective the tap the lesser need to muscle the movement.
- and do you see this as the same as when you are vaulting?

I was meaning that the more tap in the Pre-stretched position the more energy will be created in the swing therefore a smoother swing.
The better the tap before a long legged swing the more energy and lift will occur into the inversion. The less the tap the more muscling of the swing will occur

I believe this should be the same on the pole after fully completing a free/upspringing takeoff. The tap is a very important part to creating energy, or if not done correctly losing energy, this has to be done with a long leg and drive knee held in.

After reading my original post I can see where you got confused hope this helps

[KirkB]

... the more tap in the Pre-stretched position the more energy will be created in the swing therefore a smoother swing.

The better the tap before a long legged swing the more energy and lift will occur into the inversion.

The less the tap the more muscling of the swing will occur.

I believe this should be the same on the pole after fully completing a free/upspringing takeoff.

The tap is a very important part to creating energy, or if not done correctly losing energy, this has to be done with a long leg and drive knee held in.

Well said. And muscling during the swing - especially with the arms, or with a bent trail leg knee - is leakage (loss of energy).

Using your muscles to accelerate the tap (Whip) is not leakage.

Any muscle movements that shorten the radius of your swing (until you're inverted) are inefficient, whereas any muscle movements that are done whilst the radius stays long are good.

The one paradox about this is that I think your lead knee should be kept up as solidly as possible throughout the swing. If the body isn't STIFF when the pole hits the box (and beyond), then there's leakage. This means that you need to use the muscles of your lead leg to hold the knee up. If you don't keep it solid, then leakage will occur, and it will drop. If it drops, then muscle power is needed to lift it back up. This takes more energy, so is more leakage.

EXCEPTION: This might not be the case with Lukyanenko, and possibly Hooker. Each with their own unique style, they appear to be swinging with both legs, as opposed to muscling their lead knees back up. That's why I have some tolerance for their respective styles (they have 2 very different styles). They might have something there!

I realize that my opinion about keeping the lead knee up is contrary to the styles of those that drop their lead knee. (See: "Dropping the lead knee - time for a retrospective" thread.) The preference of lead-knee-droppers seems to be that they can load the pole more by keeping their lead knee down, and they can keep the pole moving to vertical better.

My personal opinion is that it's easier to learn and easier to perfect the technique of keeping the lead knee up. Also, I think that keeping it solidly up results in less leakage.

But today, I respect the opinion of those that prefer to drop their lead knee - much more than I did in past years. Especially due to Lukyanenko' and Hooker's recent successes with their styles.

Kirk

[volteur]

Hey Volteur

When I was referring to the clearhip to H/S I was trying to relate another similar movement to another apparatus. NZ Vaulter - well as you well know we have rings and parallel bars and ropes but we definitely need to get those high bar supports or else we can't get onto the real deal. Speaking of parallel bars that 6 year old is going to be the something - what did she say during your little chat? ps bloody swimming

This other apparatus was the rings and Parralel Bars and because there is no hip circle on these the nearest movement perfomed is a :
Felge also known as a Peach to support/handstand .... or Basket Swing to handstand.just had to break this up for my own clarity. Can you show me these moves tomorrow/soonpls?

The Front up rise is another move where a reversed C tap is used then driving the shoulders and hips forward to Support. So i tried to do this on the highbar once and disclocated both my shoulders


I was meaning that the more tap in the Pre-stretched position the more energy will be created in the swing therefore a smoother swing. Nice but doesn't the pre-stretch occur momentarily before the tap? Continues into the tap?

The better the tap before a long legged swing the more energy and lift will occur into the inversion. The less the tap the more muscling of the swing will occur say no to muscling i say - Arnie would have been no good at the vault

I believe this should be the same on the pole after fully completing a free/upspringing takeoff. The tap is a very important part to creating energy, or if not done correctly losing energy, this has to be done with a long leg and drive knee held in. jaja but can you tell me about the tap - is it a tap of the foot only or is there more going on than just that?

After reading my original post I can see where you got confused hope this helps

Heaps helped cheers. Now can we talk about the back uprise to H/S or at least back uprise to clear H/S?

[volteur]

the good old days for Steve's right knee - nice work Mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjZRz3Sq ... re=related