Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

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realitycheck
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Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby realitycheck » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:45 am

this is intended to help our elites whom i support completely!
russian observation:
- isi's take-off is best in the world, she always hits at take-off with front arm bent at exactly 90degrees. this stops her from blocking out. our american woman do not do this. we consitently block out at take-off and this is hurting us. dragila at the highpoint of her career was hitting with the front arm close to this (bent at 90) jumping 4.80.

- isi. consistently focuses head looking at bar immediatly and rotating head back (but not throwing head back) at take-off and and starts rotation extemely early pulling with left arm down through the pole. this gives her the fastest rotation developing incredible power. again dragila at her highpoint did this similar

- isi. will open up her stride through take-off incredibly. almost reaching out it is amazing the stride length she has. our u.s. vaulters consistenly chop steps and shorten. for isi. she actually reaches her heels out out slightly.

- isi. dominates her grip, she can handle her grip, the u.s. vaulters are over gripping way too high. you have to be so comfortable with your grip that you can finish a vault no matter what any time any conditions. if you bail out ever your grip is too high

dragila: i feel she was a lot closer to isi. technique than people think in her hay day. good front arm, great rotation and opened up stride. isi almost looks like she reaches out with her heels (actually does). stacy was a very good athlete.

chelsea: collegiate career I like her take-off more, lately been blocking out too much and it looks like she is overgripping. i think she needs to develop greater strength in her legs i feel she would benefit from extensive stregnth work in a weight room on her legs. she seems to have a strong upper body.

lacy: a very good athlete and i don't understand why people get on her technique. she is actually closer to isi. technique than people think. yes she gets in too much but her front arm and rotation are better than people think than closer to isi's technical model than people think. my advice to her having jumped 15'2 last year indoor and p.r.ing would be to stay the course and don't change much this is a very good jump for some one young in their career.. jumps better and more consistent off of a shorter run.

i offer these observation simply as one person's advice only to help. i will certainly offer more for some of our male elites and other woman as long as this is simply for discussion and people don't get too offended.

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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby VaultLove » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:15 pm

Hi Reality check,

I am curious to know how high did the elite's whom you coach jump?

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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby powerplant42 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:01 pm

Yeah there's no Q/E like achtung suggested.

consistently focuses head looking at bar immediatly and rotating head back (but not throwing head back) at take-off and and starts rotation extemely early pulling with left arm down through the pole. this gives her the fastest rotation developing incredible power.


Not reeeally... That's rowing. That's not good. LAT pull is different. She does that quite well, but so do a lot of vaulters, including the American women. A key difference in swing lies not within the swing itself... it lies within the grip width. Murer's is fine (she has other technical problems). Nobody else in the video's is.

Isinbayeva's plant is a curious topic which I'd like to prod more later in the "Advanced Technique" forum.

Perhaps more comments from me later.
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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby Erica » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:50 pm

Maybe the number two alltime female vaulter should also be included in the comparison? Jenn Stuczynski is far above everyone except Isi. What is she doing (or not doing) that is giving her great results? ...Not to mention she is also American.

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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby powerplant42 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:17 pm

I had her in mind specifically when I mentioned the wide grip. :idea:

That's a major component of what's keeping her back. She is just as (if not more) athletic as Isi!
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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby realitycheck » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:12 pm

aok this is good,no one got to offended as to our discussion and that is good.as for qualifications some people would think i am very good and others would not which is true of every coach at every level,some feel they are good and some feel they are not.back to discussion which pvp has always been supportive of good technical talk about vaulters. walker-this is a very strong athlete especially in his hips and legs with a narrowed upperbody.great pole carry and similar take off as isi (front arm bent to 90 degree to stabilize pole then a fast rotation pulling with that bent left arm down the pole.his rock back is great drawing right knee to right arm pit so he can thrust great energy toward the crossbar.very strong in legs and competitive. stuzycki- technically here i feel she is not efficient . i think this is her weakness(technique).not one or two aspects but many.i wonder how she jumps what she does but i will say that she seems to be a good all around athlete and is a tough competitor. miles-as for wide grip he wins the contest(that was for powerplant who is a good man)i dont feel miles grip is a problem,in fact i think he is efficient as bells athletes are.i would like to see more speed but i realize he is recovering from injury and i think is the sleeper in wc this year.he is strong in legs and run. my general observations of many other elites is lack of leg strength,i think we have lost the importence of how to develop muscle and strength in the weight room.athletes are made in a weight room and we have left the traditional lifts like squat,leg pressand others.you have to develop mass on the legs in order to be explosive and run.bring back alot of the basic leg weight movement and it will bring more power and speed. this is a great discussion to share ideas so that we can all think and consider opinions.no one person is completely right or wrong but all can contribute.

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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:49 pm

realitycheck wrote:this is intended to help our elites whom i support completely!


Until you are willing to say who you are, none of the elites care what you think about your technique.

If you want to help our elite athletes, give them money, or put on a meet with prize money.

Posting anonymously here is as effective as the high school athletes on here who critique their technique.

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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby vaulter870 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:23 pm

Posting anonymously here is as effective as the high school athletes on here who critique their technique.

agreed ! haha as sad as that is i feel that as a open conversation about these elite jumpers is good because it shines some light on what strengths and weeknesses of different jumpers are but unfortunatly if people dont know who you are(especially if you are a good coach!/ someone with a good technical understanding) noone listens to you
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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby SlickVT » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:32 pm

realitycheck wrote:- isi. will open up her stride through take-off incredibly.


Can you describe an "incredibly" takeoff?

realitycheck wrote:if you bail out ever your grip is too high


I'm sorry... fail.


realitycheck wrote:stacy was a very good athlete.


Stacy IS a very good athlete. 99.99% of America wishes they looked as good and are half as in shape as the First Lady of Pole Vault.

I think we understand what you are trying to say, but aside from no Q/E, I think we would all be a bit more receptive to such a critical post if it had slightly better spelling and grammar.

Thank you for the insight, though.
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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby realitycheck » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:00 pm

as for my english and grammer i was not born in the us. you should have seen my english 20 years ago.i am now a us citizen and love her as my own and am proud to be called american.i will try to keep my analizing to a minimum as for it is not excepted well.my contribution was meant to only help but constructive criticism is not accepted well by many american vaulters.there seems to be no centralized style in us.many different styles and much argument as to the best.this seems to hurt in that no technique is perfected over a long period of time.vaulters must change from hs to college to elite never perfecting one style.in all the other countrys i have studied there is one centralized technique.(germany poland russia)of course there is variation of the centralized technique but allways the same basic model for the country at every level.this makes countrys much smaller with much less participants competitive with our us.I have not benn to australia but have worked with parnov.so i can not judge their system but do understand.

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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby burningneurons » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:53 pm

While realitycheck may be right, wrong, or otherwise in some people's opinions, I think it is at least commendable that he has put so much thought into and obviously has some good ideas of his own. To say his post is of less value because of some spelling or grammar errors is just ridiculous, we all understand what he/she is trying to say. I think that because the pole vault community is so small and tight knit, it is hard to criticize anyone about anything on a message board like this because someone will personally know that person and get offended, even if the post was not meant to be negative, as realitycheck's was. . . Just my two cents. .

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Re: Isi technique compared to chelsea,lacy,stacy

Unread postby mjaubbs40 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:01 pm

realitycheck wrote:stuzycki- technically here i feel she is not efficient . i think this is her weakness(technique).not one or two aspects but many.i wonder how she jumps what she does but i will say that she seems to be a good all around athlete and is a tough competitor.

Please explain and give specific examples.
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