Chord Angle

[master]

First the easy one to explain, how much a pole is bent. The angle in this context is the angle between a line drawn through the relatively straight portion of the pole at the plug end, and the line drawn through the relatively straight section of the pole at the other end. When the pole is straight, the angle is 0 degrees. Measured at maximum bend, it shouldn't be more than 90 degrees.

All of the other questions and conjecture seem to be about when to adjust and how (based on what you just saw a vaulter do.) I couldn't find the exact listing of 6 conditions and how to respond to them, but I did find this URL
http://www.sprintic.com/training_pole_v ... _vaulting/
On this page, read the section "Basic Adjustments for Consistency". And on PVP, lonestar posted this
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13344&start=0#p97920
(see the second post on that page)

Hopefully, understanding these decision criterion will help.

- master

[Capt Caveman]

I had it right then. That is how I pictured it being measured.

Wow, if anything over 90 is too much bend there sure are a lot of people over bending poles. I would have guessed 70 to 80 degrees to be the norm. I am assuming that the angle of those two lines is measured on the vaulter side of where they intersect.

[ADTF Academy]

Yes Rick that does make more sense, thank you. It makes me wonder the next logical question in all of this. I go to my sons high school meets and hear one coach say "that kid needs to lower his grip" and another comment on the same jump "he could raise his grip". Since the chord lenth determines how much a pole is bent and the 45 degree angle you suggest is when the pole should start unbending - how much pole should there be with any given chord length? Lets use a 10 foot chord length as an example. If you measured a 10 foot chord length @ that 45 degree mark is there a grip height that you would expect to see based on that Chord? I am wrestling with how high is too high and how low is too low. I have read on this site bend being refferd to in "degrees" and in "percentages". I can grasp the % idea and how it relates to how high someone is gripping (and it makes sense with this topic). I am confused on how to measure the amount of angle a pole is bent and what is that angle related to? If the angle is just drawing a straight line through the bottom and top of the pole to form an angle (just my guess) and measuring that angle then I get it but I have tried using video to do this and it is difficult.

So 2 questions (one of them having 3 parts)
- how do you measure the "angle" a pole is bent to? what angle would you want to see if the chord is 10 feet? is there a way to determine grip height from this?
- what grip height would you expect to see if the chord length @ 45 degrees is 10 feet?

I hope this makes sense.

I am so confused I don't know how to begin.... I don't recall anyone saying at this point the pole starts to unbend. Actually at this 45 degree moment the pole will continue to bend and the cord length will continue to get shorter as the vaulter moves momentum vertical as Rick stated. This was simply a visual cue that we were referring to. I think you are thinking way to much into this. The initial question was at what angle should we see the pole cord (the imaginary line from the top hand to the box) when the body is still long and straight. The response is a 45 degree angle from the top hand through the body into the box.

Cord angle itself is every changing during the vault. There is no set angle to look for as a whole or to aim for. As the body and pole moves into the pit the angle will constantly change. You should not think any more into it. The only big point is that as long as the cord and body continues to move into the pit during the entire vault than you will typically have a safe vault and will land in the mats.

The cord length does not determine how much the pole can bend, it shows how much it has bent. I have no clue what your referring to there. The amount a pole bends down to is different for every vaulter and on most vaults itself. If you start with a 14 foot hand hold and it bend down to lets say 10 ft than that is the shortest pole cord that will be seen in the vault, but much like the cord angle the length of the pole cord is constantly changing from straight pole to completely bent to straight again. Where the issue begins if the vaulter bends the pole so much or does it in such a way the pole and body stops moving into the pits they will get rejected. If the grip is to high or pole to stiff and the pole and body stops moving into the pits you will get rejected. If you can match pole bend that allows you to keep moving into the pits you vault safe and hopefully high.

Both of these are completely different topics that should not be even looked at with the initial question. The initial question has to do with the swing and this has to do with what is to much bend in the pole.

[vault3rb0y]

maybe this can explain things a little better so everyone is on the same page with the discussion. This is how i view what we are talking about.

[Capt Caveman]

I recieved the below via PM. These 2 illistrations show me what an over bend looks like and I still say that there are an awful lot of over benders (holding too high/on too soft a pole) out there.

[ADTF Academy]

and don't forget are way over using their bottom arm.......

[baggettpv]

I thought it was chord angle, not chord length. How do you measure chord length in the field? We can see cord angle guys. So now let's go to pole bend. If the pole, at the hand hold, is parallel to the runway it's a 90 degree bend and correct. And the body passes thru the 45 degree "Rule" then it's pretty good stuff. And there is a relation to the depth of the jump. Gill sends out the relationships of Grip, pole size and landing depth with every pole they send out. Anyone ever read it?

Rick Baggett
WSTC