SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
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SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby dj » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:37 am

SERGEI BUBKA

OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Re-printed and interpreted from, Legkaya Atletika,
12: 16-17, 1983


The best pole vaulter in the first Track and Field World Championships in 1983
was 19 year-old sportsman Sergei Bubka (5.70). The success of yesterday's
junior came about with a certain degree of uncertainty, even though the
dynamics of his results substantiates the long (10 years) and steady
(without deviations) increase in his sports mastery.

Result Dynamics

Year....................Age......................Result
1974....................10........................BG
1975....................11.......................2.70
1976....................12.......................3.50
1977....................13.......................3.60
1978....................14.......................4.40
1979....................15.......................4.80
1980....................16.......................5.10
1981....................17.......................5.40
1982....................18.......................5.55
1983....................19.......................5.72

This shows somewhat of a rejuvenation in this track and field event in
general and the need to have early specialization in this sport. And, most
important, as noted by the athletes coach, is to "pay special attention
to technical improvement, which is only possible by working closely with science."

The approach run of the athlete is 20 running steps. The jumper begins
the approach run from a stand, without any preliminary steps.

He carries the pole up high, with optimally placed hands (57cm/23") and
an extended position of the trunk. All steps in the second half of the
approach run are executed actively and from the front part of the foot.
The approach run has considerable acceleration.

On the last 15m segment before the take-off, speed achieves 9.5m/sec.
In the last 6 steps (exclusive of the pre-take-off) the athlete achieves a
relatively level tempo..

The pre-take-off stride is executed very quickly
and is gathered (shortened). Time of support last all of 0.082 sec. and
the flight 0.087 sec. With this, the jumper achieves a significant increase
in tempo on the last stride, 10.37m/ sec. Such an increase in tempo is
characteristic of record-setting jumpers (V Polyakov, 5.81m).

Fast execution of the pre-take-off stride of the approach run provides maintenance
of speed in the very take-off. It also allows for transfer of inertia from the approach
run to the entire "jumper-pole" system.

During the last two strides, the jumper uses both arms to move the pole to
the plant position. The take-off is executed through a firmly extended body,
which travels upward at an angle of 77-78. The foot steps on the projection
point of the grip (top hand). The transition from the approach run to height
on the pole is executed powerfully and quickly, in 0.11 sec.

By maintaining the accumulated speed of the approach run, the upper part of the
trunk is sent forward at take-off. Speed of movement of the shoulder joint (9.0m/sec)
is ahead of the movement of the pelvic girdle (8.0m/sec)

SUPPORT PHASE ON THE POLE, AND POLE FLEXION.

The high speed of the jumper's body movement at the end of the take-off
provides for a long execution of the hang-swing. It comprises 8.3% of the
time for the entire support portion of the jump, which is very important in
jump technique with a higher grip on a firm poles.

Such actions by the jumper serve to move the entire "jumper-pole" system forward.
We can also note a positive factor here in the nearing of the trajectory of the pole
movement (point of grip) with the horizontal. (this is seen in Figure 2)

Shown here, is the coefficient of the use of the elastic properties of the pole.
They reflect the degree of technical mastery of the jumper, especially at this point
of the jump. In Bubka, it is equal to 3.7 (the jumper uses the pole at 205 lbs. with
the grip at 4.99 and flexes it more than 1.40/33% according to the cord). It is
sufficient to say that only in Volkov during the time of the XXII Olympiad that this
coefficient was higher.

Thus, the action of the jumper, up to the moment of beginning pole extension, can be
considered highly technical (proper technique). The exception appears to be
the insufficient throwing of the body onto the spine/back.

POLE EXTENSION

The moment of the greatest flexion of the pole according to the time is
stretched out (.38 sec). The jumper continues to rotate backward with
simultaneous extension of the legs. The sighting of the jumper controls
the position of the legs relative to the pole. Extension is active but long
in time (29.7%). Effort vectors of the extending body and pole coincide.
Speed of lifting the trunk and legs upward are close to 6m/sec.

Figure…..2………………………………
.dj notes: I cannot put the Trajectory diagram here. What it shows is
one: take-off angle of an 18 degree hip trajectory….
Two: the top hand trajectory from frame 13 to 25..
Three: max bend of the pole.
Interesting to me was that the vaulter only went "up" 55cm during
the "pole bending" phase..(from plant to max bend/flat back)


ACTION ON THE EXTENDED POLE

When the jumper completes the transition (rock-back/extension) to support
on the pole, the pole is sharply and fully extended and the athlete, so to speak,
"loses it". As a consequence, at the beginning of the push-off the legs and
trunk are lowered and go far from the axis of the pole.

But the high speed of the lift (Table 1) allows the jumper to quickly go
through this situation. (Fast execution of coming out of support on the
pole is a regular occurrence in pole vaulters in their record tries).

A deficiency of Bubka here appears to be the lack of clear execution of
the transition of effort from the left arm to the right hand. Because of this, in
the push-off, the right arm of the athlete simply accompanies the pole.
The jumper does not succeed in pushing off.

In this portion of the jump Bubka has significant reserves for increasing
his technical mastery. At this point, it is not necessary for the jumper to
strive to end the jump faster than 1.27 sec. (See Table). What should follow
is to increase the duration of the interaction with the pole, by means of an
active push-off.

GOING OVER THE BAR

The jumper, in using compensatory movement of the body, maintains a high
speed of pelvic girdle movement (up to 3.0m/sec). As a consequence, when
going over the bar, the trajectory of movement of the jumper's body goes
over significantly higher than the height of the bar. Easy calculations which
can be carries out on the cinematogram show that on this try Bubka could
have gone over the bar at a height of 5.85-5.90!

NOTE: From the original author –
1986 up-date: Since 1983 Sergei Bubka has made sufficient improvements.
First of all his overall speed for the last six strides has improved from
9.56 m/sex to 9.84 m/sec. Second, his execution off the top of t
he pole has also improved.


Resultant Dynamics
Year................................Age......................Result
1984.................................20.......................5.94
1985.................................21.......................6.00
1986.................................22.......................6.01 ……………….

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby dj » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:40 pm

hye

64 looks and no comments???

interesting... i feel i learned a lot from this 26 years ago...

is this all "common knowledge" today or have we moved "ahead" or beyond this???

dj

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby altius » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:32 pm

Sorry dj - this piece was reprinted in our ATFCA coaching magazine by Jess Jarver - about a year after it appeared -or thereabouts. So maybe it is old news to many folk.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby VaultPurple » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:08 pm

I think the age group records have some merit in showing that maybe how pole vault and track and field is viewed as a sport may could be adjusted slightly.

Bubka started at age 10 and most people are all ways like, don't start kids too early because they may loose interest or burn out.

But one thing I think may need to be looked at is the comparison to swimming. In competitive swimming if you are not training by age 5 you have very little shot of ever making it to the top or breaking any records. Yes I realize swimming is not as hard on the body. BUT when looking at the entire picture there are millions of kids who compete in swimming and there are a ton of them that loose interest after a few years, more that drop off when they get to middle school, and even more that lose interest in competing at the high level by the time they hit high school. Some stop improving, and some just find other things they want to do. But the point I am making is that there are such large numbers that go through the system, that the USA only needs a few to survive the system and when they do they come out the best!

So it is pretty much survival of the fittest, and the ones that make it end up the best.

I do not think this is necessarily the best choice of athlete production for the individual athletes, but as a group as a hole it is how you produce the best athletes.

So if we had a 100,000 Mondo's around the country starting to pole vault at age 5, all you need is 1 to make it through the system and end up on top. Then a 10 year old 12'6 jump would still be really impressive, but you would have 10 of them a year vs. 1 a decade.

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby dj » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:40 am

Hey Alan,

Actually I think it is only "ole news" to you and I and maybe a (very) few others..

I was trying to point out what you have been saying/trying to say goes way back, has a foundation and is based in "science "and you would think our "newer' generations would have started to catch on by now.

Truly I am and have been "miffed' that no one worldwide has "copied" what Bubka/Petrov did…

We finally did it in the Long Jump, simplest of events; we did it in the Sprints, big time… Hurdles, etc..

Every time I have see someone that says they are trying to do the "model"., or even believes in the model…. they are not. Something has been missing, Run, Plant, Swing or pole.. Something..

Maybe someone in the next 10 years will get..

dj

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby vaultman18 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:32 am

dj wrote:Truly I am and have been "miffed' that no one worldwide has "copied" what Bubka/Petrov did…


What are you waiting for?

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby dj » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:45 am

hye

honestly vaultman18...

basicly like most coaches i have had to make a living for myself and family... coaching for free doesn't pay the bills

and

the athlete to work with or that will work with me...

i'm not making that last statement to "open" myself to criticism… most of us don't really know each other.. so "judgments" would be difficult and fruitless.... I'm making it because the athlete has to "commit" to being good and doing things correctly.. actually few will do that… most of those have coaches they don't want to "insult' by looking for a second opinion.. and what they are getting my be the best for them anyway.

dj

some athletes want and excuse.... others become champions.....

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby dj » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:15 pm

hey

This is what can be done when a great vaulter commits to change, STARTING WITH THE RUN, in 1984 Mike Tully started his change to a Physics model.. the Petrov/Bubka model... look at the changes between '84 and 87/88. All changes i helped make...

1984 final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALs9EDHK ... re=related

Tully 19' big 1987/88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA7Dapjsh9A


dj

PS. i need to add.. we didn't call it the Petrov "model" but did try and use what we saw Bubka doing "correctly"... we called it the "Tellez/Kochel Model "..........run fast - hold high- use a big stick model!!!

some athletes want an excuse.. ^... others become champions.....

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby starkey480 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:41 pm

run fast - hold high- use a big stick model!!!


My family seems very familiar with this model.....

My step mom and I were talking about it and it seems like the trend for most everyone from back when my dad was jumping was get as strong and fast as possible and get on as big of a pole as possible. That doesn't quite seem to be the case nowadays. Now my question is, why was the level of competition so much higher back then than it is today? I know we have Renaud who is jumping outstanding, but he seems to be the one guy right now that is consistently tearing it up, where as back in the day there was Bubka, Tarasov, Rodian Gataulin, Tradenkov, Okert Brits, my dad, Galfione.... and so on that were all leaving up 5.80 + on a consistent basis. Where did that go?

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby Barto » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:30 pm

Garrett,
The answer is pretty simple. Girls came to the pole vault pit, and Boys became sissys. Prior to 1996, "acting like a girl" simply was not tolerated at the pole vault pit. Ask Jill. This is why that first generation of American women where so successful compared to later years. You HAD to be tough to be a vaulter. Period. End of story. After the arrival of mainstream girls that all ended.
Facts, Not Fiction

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby achtungpv » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:46 pm

Also, specialization in other sports has really hurt. 7 on 7 spring football keeps a lot of talent off the runway. You rarely see truly great high school athletes in the vault anymore.
"You have some interesting coaching theories that seem to have little potential."

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Re: SERGEI BUBKA - OVER THE BAR BY V. MANSVETOV

Unread postby starkey480 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:04 am

ya thats true and I feel like the way it works at high schools is the track coaches send all the kids who are not fast enough to win any races over to the pole vault pit. Also coaches rarely let good athletes focus on the vault because they want them to do a bunch of events just to score the track team points....


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