I think too much emphasis is given to the takeoff location on these boards while failing to mention the takeoff position itself. Thank you ADTF for including it in this discussion because I think that it is very critical to the pole vault. I've seen too many vaulters who take off 6"+ outside, sag the pole, barely catch up to it at the top, and then jump 1' or so over their handgrip on a pole that is probably stiff enough to put them through the ceiling. I think that there must be a lot of coaches who read 2 chapters of beginner to bubka and then ran out their door to coach, thinking that taking off outside is the magic genie of pole vaulting. It's not. Creating or transferring all of that energy at the takeoff is relatively meaningless if you are going to squander it in the next phase of the vault. If you don't set yourself up to swing, then you are only benefiting from an increased grip height and a stiffer pole by taking off outside.
I think we need to think of things a little differently. The takeoff spot is NOT the whole takeoff, in fact I consider it part of the run. The very last aspect of the run. If you look at it this way, then coaches who only focus on or care about where the athlete's takeoff spot is are ignoring 90% of the run, and not coaching the takeoff at all. If you coach an athlete to have a good run up that puts him in a strong takeoff position he will be more likely to feel comfortable taking off closer to out, and even inside takeoffs will be more productive. An athlete who hits a free or close to free takeoff with a strong accurate run up in the correct takeoff position will have a very difficult time NOT hitting a good swing afterwards. You can't coach the continuous chain if you only focus on one link with out paying attention to what comes before and after.
ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
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IAmTheWalrus
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
hey
i very, very seldom check the takeoff point...
the athlete knows if they were out or under...
plus i can see if it is correct or incorrect...
how you get there... and the active body position/posture and impluse is the most important aspect at the plnt/takeoff.
dj
i very, very seldom check the takeoff point...
the athlete knows if they were out or under...
plus i can see if it is correct or incorrect...
how you get there... and the active body position/posture and impluse is the most important aspect at the plnt/takeoff.
dj
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altius
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
"I think that there must be a lot of coaches who read 2 chapters of beginner to bubka and then ran out their door to coach, thinking that taking off outside is the magic genie of pole vaulting. It's not."
On the basis of that statement it would seem that you have not read any of BTB2. But if you do take the time to read it you will find no reference to taking off ""6" outside" - even though photographs of three of the highest vaulters in history - Bubka, Tarasov and Markov do appear to show them taking off that far out. Here it may also be worth noting the changes Tim Mack undertook to modify his take off position of around 12'6"?? after watching Markov - at just under 6' - taking off from around fourteen feet in Edmonton. That story is in the record somewhere.
However you WILL find a detailed statement of the importance of an accurate and controlled run up, a perfect planting action (IMHO somewhat neglected in the USA) and a strong take off position in BTB. The free take off and its extension the pre jump were given a strong emphasis because - at least in my discussions with US coaches from 1997 onwards, no one I met had considered the advantages of this method. IN BTB you should also get the impression that taking off under is not recommended - I suspect that has been the cause of most of the accidents in this event since the flexible pole emerged - and in my view at least, restricts the potential of any athlete who consistently takes off under. Of course it IS possible for an athlete to be slightly under - as was Bubka in his winning jump in Seoul in 1988 - and still jump high but that was certainly not his intention then or since - as you will see from the material that began this topic.
I would also suggest that on the evidence from Reno - as reported to me, since I was not there this year - relatively few high school coaches in the USA have taken much notice of BTB. But if they have and are recommending take off points 6 inches out - they havent read it very carefully. Finally I would point out that BTb was not simply a description of what Bubka and Isinbayeva did, it represented 20 years of practice to establish what could be learned from Petrov and Bubka and applied to young athletes, training in a less than promising environment with an amateur coach. The results of this experience are outlined in the book and there are photographs of at least ten of these youngsters in it - indeed four are on the front and back pages. Working with a large number of youngsters of varying potential - including a not uncommon inability to spring off the ground - led me to the belief that although it was very unlikely that any of them would jump 'like Bubka' they could all benefit from mastering at least some elements of his technical model - not the least of those benefits being that the could jump safely. This has been a message that I have presented consistently on this forum for several years.
On the basis of that statement it would seem that you have not read any of BTB2. But if you do take the time to read it you will find no reference to taking off ""6" outside" - even though photographs of three of the highest vaulters in history - Bubka, Tarasov and Markov do appear to show them taking off that far out. Here it may also be worth noting the changes Tim Mack undertook to modify his take off position of around 12'6"?? after watching Markov - at just under 6' - taking off from around fourteen feet in Edmonton. That story is in the record somewhere.
However you WILL find a detailed statement of the importance of an accurate and controlled run up, a perfect planting action (IMHO somewhat neglected in the USA) and a strong take off position in BTB. The free take off and its extension the pre jump were given a strong emphasis because - at least in my discussions with US coaches from 1997 onwards, no one I met had considered the advantages of this method. IN BTB you should also get the impression that taking off under is not recommended - I suspect that has been the cause of most of the accidents in this event since the flexible pole emerged - and in my view at least, restricts the potential of any athlete who consistently takes off under. Of course it IS possible for an athlete to be slightly under - as was Bubka in his winning jump in Seoul in 1988 - and still jump high but that was certainly not his intention then or since - as you will see from the material that began this topic.
I would also suggest that on the evidence from Reno - as reported to me, since I was not there this year - relatively few high school coaches in the USA have taken much notice of BTB. But if they have and are recommending take off points 6 inches out - they havent read it very carefully. Finally I would point out that BTb was not simply a description of what Bubka and Isinbayeva did, it represented 20 years of practice to establish what could be learned from Petrov and Bubka and applied to young athletes, training in a less than promising environment with an amateur coach. The results of this experience are outlined in the book and there are photographs of at least ten of these youngsters in it - indeed four are on the front and back pages. Working with a large number of youngsters of varying potential - including a not uncommon inability to spring off the ground - led me to the belief that although it was very unlikely that any of them would jump 'like Bubka' they could all benefit from mastering at least some elements of his technical model - not the least of those benefits being that the could jump safely. This has been a message that I have presented consistently on this forum for several years.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
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IAmTheWalrus
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
Alan -
You misunderstand me. I have read BtB and BtB2 (In fact I have a signed copy of the original BtB) and agree with it from cover to cover. My point was that I believe that coaches read about the free takeoff, simplify it down to merely jumping with an outside mark, and then fail to read anything about the run up, the plant, the swing, or drills designed to rehearse these components of the vault separate from the vault runway. I think that your book and the information found within are fantastic, but I don't think everyone that thinks that they are coaching the free takeoff are doing it well, because they fail to include it in context with an actual vault (i.e. as the result of a strong run-up and setting up a powerful whipping swing). Anyone who fully understands the the concept of a free takeoff would not make this mistake, and I don't think anyone who is involved in this thread has made that mistake. My concern is that coaches and athletes who are reading posts on here see us talking about the free takeoff, view it as just the takeoff location, and then proceed to push their run back, stride, fail to jump well of the ground, and are left with a vault in which the pole sags and moves slowly towards the box, preventing them from swinging well.
I only mention this because I see it a lot at low-middle caliber college meets. Athletes have a terrible run that culminates in a flat outside takeoff, they hold a drive position in order to move the pole, and then are unable to come close to covering the pole with their swing, which is very late.
The free takeoff is great, but I think many coaches don't fully understand what a free takeoff is, but still coach it as though it is the holy grail of the pole vault, which leads to undisciplined and unrefined vaulters on big poles that underperform. When the free takeoff is achieved through drills and technical coaching of the run and plant it can be immensely effective.
Alan I apologize if you thought I was criticizing your book, I was merely criticizing those coaches who appear to have skimmed it and don't understand the idea of a continuous chain model.
P.S. I think Roman's Manifesto is another fantastic read as it really emphasizes the energy that can be created from the swing, and the idea of working ahead of the pole and not just being thrown by it.
You misunderstand me. I have read BtB and BtB2 (In fact I have a signed copy of the original BtB) and agree with it from cover to cover. My point was that I believe that coaches read about the free takeoff, simplify it down to merely jumping with an outside mark, and then fail to read anything about the run up, the plant, the swing, or drills designed to rehearse these components of the vault separate from the vault runway. I think that your book and the information found within are fantastic, but I don't think everyone that thinks that they are coaching the free takeoff are doing it well, because they fail to include it in context with an actual vault (i.e. as the result of a strong run-up and setting up a powerful whipping swing). Anyone who fully understands the the concept of a free takeoff would not make this mistake, and I don't think anyone who is involved in this thread has made that mistake. My concern is that coaches and athletes who are reading posts on here see us talking about the free takeoff, view it as just the takeoff location, and then proceed to push their run back, stride, fail to jump well of the ground, and are left with a vault in which the pole sags and moves slowly towards the box, preventing them from swinging well.
I only mention this because I see it a lot at low-middle caliber college meets. Athletes have a terrible run that culminates in a flat outside takeoff, they hold a drive position in order to move the pole, and then are unable to come close to covering the pole with their swing, which is very late.
The free takeoff is great, but I think many coaches don't fully understand what a free takeoff is, but still coach it as though it is the holy grail of the pole vault, which leads to undisciplined and unrefined vaulters on big poles that underperform. When the free takeoff is achieved through drills and technical coaching of the run and plant it can be immensely effective.
Alan I apologize if you thought I was criticizing your book, I was merely criticizing those coaches who appear to have skimmed it and don't understand the idea of a continuous chain model.
P.S. I think Roman's Manifesto is another fantastic read as it really emphasizes the energy that can be created from the swing, and the idea of working ahead of the pole and not just being thrown by it.
-Nick
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tsorenson
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
I can speak from experience how hard it is to transition from an under takeoff to a consistent free takeoff, especially because I fall into ADTF's category of "no hops". I am glad that this forum is hopefully making the point that you can't just have a free takeoff because you want to, it takes time, effort, and an emphasis on approach mechanics. Ideally these things are emphasized in the early developmental stages of a vaulter's learning (first few years) before the vaulter gets on big bendy poles which can be more forgiving of being under. Because this initial learning process is often skipped for short-term gain, unfortunately many excellent vaulters are hampered by so many bad habits by the time they reach college, that re-learning the approach is not an option...results are expected. The entire vault feels different when you take off "free" vs. under. It gets much harder to do when you move back to long runs and big poles. DJ deserves credit for trying to share a method of making this happen, although I don't think that going back to 10 lefts is going to help most HS vaulters!
I agree with many things that have been stated so far on this forum. I especially like dj's recounting of Petrov's statement of what instinct tells us to do when we do achieve a free takeoff...basically "hug momma" because it is scary. This is very true. Another common reaction is to "reach forward" for the box blocking the forward movement of the chest, instead of driving the hands up and allowing the chest to drive toward the pit. This is where people with a de-emphasized bottom arm are more easily able to use a free takeoff...in addition they can sometimes achieve a free takeoff even when they are under, because they let everything go through the top hand. This is not optimal, but can allow a vaulter to avoid being in support of both the pole and the ground at the same time, and to enjoy some of the benefits of a free takeoff even though they are taking off too close to the box. Preferably they can get the feet down sooner and be able to extend both hands high without blocking the chest.
The reason so many vaulters can't use a free takeoff is because they have not put the emphasis in the right place. Petrov and his disciples understood that the pole carry, free pole drop, and specific plant mechanics are what allow a vaulter to jump from far away without losing momentum. Roman Bocharnikov (agapit) explained years ago on this forum how important the pole drop is for the acceleration into a free takeoff...but many very good vaulters continue to drop the pole too early, ruining posture and robbing themselves of the mechanical advantage of a freely dropping (weightless) pole. In my opinion, the vaulters who have the best pole drops are the ones you see taking off the farthest from the box with proper posture (Bubka, Markov, Walker, Lavillenie, Jordan Scott). Check it out for yourself...give it a try, it works! Borges is the exception (he carries the weight of the pole for several strides before dropping it freely at the end) but I believe that he is an exceptional horizontal jumper and would jump much higher if he could improve his pole drop.
Alan Launder (altius) deserves credit for sharing a workable method for developing young vaulters with a free takeoff. Obviously there are others in the US who have developed similar, workable methods, but if they have shared them widely it has escaped the attention of many coaches. I highly recommend BTB, and also Pat Licari and Rick Baggett's publications for development of the approach. Obviously Jordan Scott's coach (Tom Hays, I believe?) applies these same principles, not sure if he has published any books or videos. Same goes for Morry Sanders in Arkansas. What many coaches fail to realize is that many of the drills they have been using for years may actually encourage vaulters to be in support of pole and ground at the same time...a.k.a. an under takeoff. Something to think about!
Cheers,
Tom
I agree with many things that have been stated so far on this forum. I especially like dj's recounting of Petrov's statement of what instinct tells us to do when we do achieve a free takeoff...basically "hug momma" because it is scary. This is very true. Another common reaction is to "reach forward" for the box blocking the forward movement of the chest, instead of driving the hands up and allowing the chest to drive toward the pit. This is where people with a de-emphasized bottom arm are more easily able to use a free takeoff...in addition they can sometimes achieve a free takeoff even when they are under, because they let everything go through the top hand. This is not optimal, but can allow a vaulter to avoid being in support of both the pole and the ground at the same time, and to enjoy some of the benefits of a free takeoff even though they are taking off too close to the box. Preferably they can get the feet down sooner and be able to extend both hands high without blocking the chest.
The reason so many vaulters can't use a free takeoff is because they have not put the emphasis in the right place. Petrov and his disciples understood that the pole carry, free pole drop, and specific plant mechanics are what allow a vaulter to jump from far away without losing momentum. Roman Bocharnikov (agapit) explained years ago on this forum how important the pole drop is for the acceleration into a free takeoff...but many very good vaulters continue to drop the pole too early, ruining posture and robbing themselves of the mechanical advantage of a freely dropping (weightless) pole. In my opinion, the vaulters who have the best pole drops are the ones you see taking off the farthest from the box with proper posture (Bubka, Markov, Walker, Lavillenie, Jordan Scott). Check it out for yourself...give it a try, it works! Borges is the exception (he carries the weight of the pole for several strides before dropping it freely at the end) but I believe that he is an exceptional horizontal jumper and would jump much higher if he could improve his pole drop.
Alan Launder (altius) deserves credit for sharing a workable method for developing young vaulters with a free takeoff. Obviously there are others in the US who have developed similar, workable methods, but if they have shared them widely it has escaped the attention of many coaches. I highly recommend BTB, and also Pat Licari and Rick Baggett's publications for development of the approach. Obviously Jordan Scott's coach (Tom Hays, I believe?) applies these same principles, not sure if he has published any books or videos. Same goes for Morry Sanders in Arkansas. What many coaches fail to realize is that many of the drills they have been using for years may actually encourage vaulters to be in support of pole and ground at the same time...a.k.a. an under takeoff. Something to think about!
Cheers,
Tom
Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
Hey Tom,
i agree all the way through... and i don't know that any high school kid can use 20 steps...
the approach is all progressive... proportionately.. the higher you jump the longer the run should be... i don't know what Joe dial's or the other 18 foot high school vaulters runs were... but I would imagine 18… and like someone has said.. maybe Barto.. 12 to jump 12, 14 to jump 14, 16 to jump 16, 18 to jump 18 and 20 to jump 20…
with pole carry, pole drop, correct acceleration skills these numbers seem to fit the developed skill level over all.
At any run/step distance/steps.. what you do before the "MID" will predict how fast and how accurate you are.. where you hit at the "MID" based on your speed level will predict what you CAN do from that point to the plant/takeoff….
I agree with all the technical aspects Alan has said… I have tried to add my run "process" as the most effective way to be capable of dropping the pole correctly, to not over stride.. because eif you over stride you do not have the correct posture and cannot GET the correct posture before the plant…
From 1995 through 2000 and 2004 Tim Mack worked on getting his "MID" out from 53-6 to 54-6/55 feet.. with the correct speed to go with that "MID".. that process also gave him the posture because he "stretched" very little when he hit around 54-6… this same process moved his takeoff out to 13-8…
dj
i agree all the way through... and i don't know that any high school kid can use 20 steps...
the approach is all progressive... proportionately.. the higher you jump the longer the run should be... i don't know what Joe dial's or the other 18 foot high school vaulters runs were... but I would imagine 18… and like someone has said.. maybe Barto.. 12 to jump 12, 14 to jump 14, 16 to jump 16, 18 to jump 18 and 20 to jump 20…
with pole carry, pole drop, correct acceleration skills these numbers seem to fit the developed skill level over all.
At any run/step distance/steps.. what you do before the "MID" will predict how fast and how accurate you are.. where you hit at the "MID" based on your speed level will predict what you CAN do from that point to the plant/takeoff….
I agree with all the technical aspects Alan has said… I have tried to add my run "process" as the most effective way to be capable of dropping the pole correctly, to not over stride.. because eif you over stride you do not have the correct posture and cannot GET the correct posture before the plant…
From 1995 through 2000 and 2004 Tim Mack worked on getting his "MID" out from 53-6 to 54-6/55 feet.. with the correct speed to go with that "MID".. that process also gave him the posture because he "stretched" very little when he hit around 54-6… this same process moved his takeoff out to 13-8…
dj
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ADTF Academy
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
dj wrote:I agree with all the technical aspects Alan has said… I have tried to add my run "process" as the most effective way to be capable of dropping the pole correctly, to not over stride.. because eif you over stride you do not have the correct posture and cannot GET the correct posture before the plant…
From 1995 through 2000 and 2004 Tim Mack worked on getting his "MID" out from 53-6 to 54-6/55 feet.. with the correct speed to go with that "MID".. that process also gave him the posture because he "stretched" very little when he hit around 54-6… this same process moved his takeoff out to 13-8…
dj
So as I stated the charts in themselves are only as good as the ability of the athlete to run correctly and maintain posture through the takeoff. Learning proper running mechanics and posture through pole carry and drop is the golden ticket everyone is looking for. It's boring and takes up a lot of time, but it rewards you with the most gains. Spend time learning to run, plant and most importantly how to set up the jumping action correctly and the rest takes care of itself.
If you don't know what your natural step length and step frequency is on and off the runway than you have no clue if your striding out or simply put your posture is just horrible. Penultimate steps kill athletes. I'm just going to say it if you don't know how to use it correctly don't use it. If your hips sink 4 inches your take off foot can't be placed under your center of mass therefore you will be technically reaching every time. Reality is you didn't stride out, per say, you just dropped your hips too much and you're not giving yourself enough room for your foot to land under you.
Watch your athletes takeoff and notice did their hips lower in the last two steps. If the hips did than notice did they ever raise back up before last step contact. If the answer is no your athlete will always reach, will always be under and will always lose energy at takeoff. Its their jumping mechanics and mind set not mid mark. If the athlete can't learn to finish the approach with tall hips giving them the room to place their last step under their hips nothing you read here or think when it comes to mids matter.
If Tim Mac had stayed at 53-6 or had moved to 55 feet and never fixed his posture at takeoff he would have been reaching in both scenarios even if he got his step from 12'6 to 13'6. Since he fixed it moving back was logical and needed to move his step out. Not fixing his posture meant he would be reaching and therefore never would have put optimal energy for his velocity at the moment of takeoff into the pole.
Learn to jump and finish with your foot under your hips at takeoff and the rest will take care of itself. Free takeoff, 6" out and any other term used can only work effectively if you fix your posture. I hope people get I mean you need to fix your posture and hip height at takeoff. The Higher your hips the better when your last step strikes the ground. Low hips = stride out rather you are striding out or not.
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altius
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
" the charts in themselves are only as good as the ability of the athlete to run correctly and maintain posture through the takeoff." I have always respected dj's commitment to his chart - - it is clear from posts on pvp that some folk find them valuable - but I have also always had reservations about this particular issue.
Wally old son I have read enough of your posts on PVP to know that you are not from the dark side. I just wanted to take the opportunity to drive another nail into the coffin - or should it be a wooden stake through the heart - of the myth that i recommend an extreme take off of the kind mentioned. That said if you do want your athletes to try and develop an upspringing take off it IS best done through short approach drills into a sand pit that exaggerate that element of technique - in that situation you may certainly find athletes up to six inches in the air before the pole tip hits the sand - but this is just that - an exaggeration; a principle we often use in teaching and coaching.
Wally old son I have read enough of your posts on PVP to know that you are not from the dark side. I just wanted to take the opportunity to drive another nail into the coffin - or should it be a wooden stake through the heart - of the myth that i recommend an extreme take off of the kind mentioned. That said if you do want your athletes to try and develop an upspringing take off it IS best done through short approach drills into a sand pit that exaggerate that element of technique - in that situation you may certainly find athletes up to six inches in the air before the pole tip hits the sand - but this is just that - an exaggeration; a principle we often use in teaching and coaching.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
good morning,
sorry ADTF and Alan you have it backwards as to what the "chart" as a monitor does...
stretching and therefore poor posture comes from hitting too far out at the :MID" for your speed level as does stepping under... the hips are in the wrong position to perform a penultimate.
try this..
toe a mark and walk 6 normal steps... add a foot to the distance covered and walk six steps... what has to happen? you either have to "push" more on each step or stretch.
when a "MID" is too far out for your vaulters speed they will stretch and lose posture... even though i know you have coached them until you are blue in the face.....for me "form follows function"...
you can do 20-20's with correct form.. but try doing 20 steps that are 2 meters long!!! will you stretch or do you have the speed ability to not stretch. do you have to back up and "run into" two meter strides to reach them without stretching?
the numbers on the chart are as close to the speed ability that Bubka had to hit a 17 to 17.30 mid and run without stretching... when Isi hit 18 to 20 inches out at the "MID" in the WC she didn't have the ability to speed up and cover the extra 3+ inches per stride so she had to stretch, lost posture, was slower, mass lower, couldn't drop the pole correctly, didn't have the speed to move the pole to vertical correctly...
my point is this... that world class vaulter you are coaching didn't just "forget" everything you taught them.... i don't take it "personal" when that happens... i know something is wrong with the "physics" for a world class--throughbred to suddenly lose everything they have been taught...
everything in technique, every "action" is a result of the action before the action we are looking at.... remember the vault starts with the correct grip and the first step... you can "predict" waht will happen based on what you see at each step... i can predict what will happen based on the speed and point at the at six steps from the Takeoff if i already know my vaukters speed potential/level..
dj
sorry ADTF and Alan you have it backwards as to what the "chart" as a monitor does...
stretching and therefore poor posture comes from hitting too far out at the :MID" for your speed level as does stepping under... the hips are in the wrong position to perform a penultimate.
try this..
toe a mark and walk 6 normal steps... add a foot to the distance covered and walk six steps... what has to happen? you either have to "push" more on each step or stretch.
when a "MID" is too far out for your vaulters speed they will stretch and lose posture... even though i know you have coached them until you are blue in the face.....for me "form follows function"...
you can do 20-20's with correct form.. but try doing 20 steps that are 2 meters long!!! will you stretch or do you have the speed ability to not stretch. do you have to back up and "run into" two meter strides to reach them without stretching?
the numbers on the chart are as close to the speed ability that Bubka had to hit a 17 to 17.30 mid and run without stretching... when Isi hit 18 to 20 inches out at the "MID" in the WC she didn't have the ability to speed up and cover the extra 3+ inches per stride so she had to stretch, lost posture, was slower, mass lower, couldn't drop the pole correctly, didn't have the speed to move the pole to vertical correctly...
my point is this... that world class vaulter you are coaching didn't just "forget" everything you taught them.... i don't take it "personal" when that happens... i know something is wrong with the "physics" for a world class--throughbred to suddenly lose everything they have been taught...
everything in technique, every "action" is a result of the action before the action we are looking at.... remember the vault starts with the correct grip and the first step... you can "predict" waht will happen based on what you see at each step... i can predict what will happen based on the speed and point at the at six steps from the Takeoff if i already know my vaukters speed potential/level..
dj
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TheBestVaulterAlive
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
Thumbs up to DJ!
"You only fail if you want to." - Dr. Komarraju
Cody Doerflein
Cody Doerflein
Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
PS
do we have any USA male jumpers jumping like Bubka?
Have you "tested" the chart....
have you had your 5.80 jumpers grip 5m... force them to hit 55 feet and get there feet down???
do we have anyone hitting these numbers?...........................
hit the numbers you will have the posture and potential to drop the pole and takeoff free...........
all the numbers... you can't pick and chose the numbers you want... physics doesn't work that way.........
Bubka.. 5.85 jump (6.12 max height COM)’87 IAAF INDOOR
the max height of the COM was @105cm past vertical..
Pole…5.10/5.20 pacer…grip…5.10m.. Flex…?…Standards…?cm
Length last two steps……………….................pen..2.10m...last…2.04cm
Speed last two steps……………..................…pen..9.46m/s..last..9.54m/s
Six Step "MID"......................................16.80m to 17.10m----55' to 56'........
pole angle at plant…………………………………...............28.6 degrees
Vertical extension of plant arm at plant………..........…...99.4%
Take Off point in relationship to the backof the box..........4.37m
takeoff toe in relation to grip…………………….. 10cm/3.9" under..
……….numbers at takeoff.. toe leaving the runway….
Horizontal Velocity of CG……………………………8.04 m/s
Vertical Velocity of CG……………………………....2.37 m/s
Resultant Velocity of CG……………………………..8.38 m/s
Takeoff angle…………………………………………16.4degrees
Pole bend %…………………………………….…….1.6%
Takeoff toe in relation to top grip……………...……. 2cm/
Pole angle just as toe leaves the runway………….…..29.6 degrees
Impluse.. duration of takeoff foot contact………….0.12sec
Maximum bend………………………………….........27.1%
Minimum effective pole length……………………..3.73m/12’2.7”
Angle of pole cord to vertical at maximum bend…..61.7degrees
Time of max bend after Takeoff……………………..0.49sec
Total time of jump……………………………………1.55sec
dj
do we have any USA male jumpers jumping like Bubka?
Have you "tested" the chart....
have you had your 5.80 jumpers grip 5m... force them to hit 55 feet and get there feet down???
do we have anyone hitting these numbers?...........................
hit the numbers you will have the posture and potential to drop the pole and takeoff free...........
all the numbers... you can't pick and chose the numbers you want... physics doesn't work that way.........
Bubka.. 5.85 jump (6.12 max height COM)’87 IAAF INDOOR
the max height of the COM was @105cm past vertical..
Pole…5.10/5.20 pacer…grip…5.10m.. Flex…?…Standards…?cm
Length last two steps……………….................pen..2.10m...last…2.04cm
Speed last two steps……………..................…pen..9.46m/s..last..9.54m/s
Six Step "MID"......................................16.80m to 17.10m----55' to 56'........
pole angle at plant…………………………………...............28.6 degrees
Vertical extension of plant arm at plant………..........…...99.4%
Take Off point in relationship to the backof the box..........4.37m
takeoff toe in relation to grip…………………….. 10cm/3.9" under..
……….numbers at takeoff.. toe leaving the runway….
Horizontal Velocity of CG……………………………8.04 m/s
Vertical Velocity of CG……………………………....2.37 m/s
Resultant Velocity of CG……………………………..8.38 m/s
Takeoff angle…………………………………………16.4degrees
Pole bend %…………………………………….…….1.6%
Takeoff toe in relation to top grip……………...……. 2cm/
Pole angle just as toe leaves the runway………….…..29.6 degrees
Impluse.. duration of takeoff foot contact………….0.12sec
Maximum bend………………………………….........27.1%
Minimum effective pole length……………………..3.73m/12’2.7”
Angle of pole cord to vertical at maximum bend…..61.7degrees
Time of max bend after Takeoff……………………..0.49sec
Total time of jump……………………………………1.55sec
dj
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Re: ROUND TABLE WITH SERGEY BUBKA
dj wrote:
toe a mark and walk 6 normal steps... add a foot to the distance covered and walk six steps... what has to happen? you either have to "push" more on each step or stretch.
dj
Ok perfect example. walk those 6 steps and than dip on step 5 lowering your center of mass and proceed to step 6. What happens? You don't have room for your 6th step to strike the ground so it lands out front. Teach marks on the ground all you want, but if the athlete doesn't know who to execute a proper jumping action with posture and maintenance of speed through takeoff none of it matters.
Alan is 100% correct that to begin learning how starts into the sand, over a hurdle, from short approach and etc of drills we all do onto plyo boxes. Bottom line is when the athlete goes all out can they have the mental ability to hold posture into and through the takeoff. If they lose posture they will reach every time.
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