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I even tried working on it today, but i can't seem to stop swaying the pole in my run. When i try to control the pole from swinging all around the world during my run, I lose too much speed. When i just relax and try to maybe hold the pole a little higher, I slow down then too. Other than the bad vaulting because this was two months ago, could i get some feedback, or is it even relevant to a successful jump? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2mYct9ppNk

christopher_cochran wrote:... is it even relevant to a successful jump?

Definitely! Your pole carry and pole drop are EXTREMELY important parts of your vault. If you can't do them properly, then you can't run properly. And if you can't run properly, your plant will be off. And if your plant is off, your takeoff will be off. And if your takeoff is off ... well, you get the idea!

christopher_cochran wrote: ... i can't seem to stop swaying the pole in my run. When i try to control the pole from swinging all around the world during my run, I lose too much speed. When i just relax and try to maybe hold the pole a little higher, I slow down then too.

It looks to me like you're trying to carry the pole too much with your bottom arm ... and not enough with your top arm.

To carry it mostly with your top arm, you need to adopt a "high pole carry". Watch Bubka. He starts with his pole at quite a high angle, and as he picks up steam, he drops the pole "weightlessly" into the box. He also lets his elbows wobble ... so that the pole doesn't wobble so much.

In contrast, what I see with your pole carry is that when you start your run, you immediately put a lot of the pole weight onto your bottom arm. And then you do your back-and-forth punching of the pole thing. Watch your bottom elbow in your vid, and you'll see how much it's ... as you say ... SWAYING. Where the elbow goes, so goes the pole.

Try to get used to a high pole carry by first just running with the pole ... without any intention of planting it. Try to put ALL its weight on your top arm. Try to use your bottom arm just for BALANCING the pole ... not for holding it upright. If you're not strong enough to do this, then shame on you! No ... seriously ... if you can't hold your LIGHT pole (I dunno how much it weighs, but I'll bet Johanna Duplantis could lift it!), then ya gotta hit the weights.

What kinda weights? Well, maybe fill an old heavy pole full of pebbles, and practice running with that!

So that's the first step ... learn to run with a heavy pole BALANCED so that all (or almost all) its weight is on your top arm. As you run, the butt of the pole should be STEADY. (It's OK if the top of the pole sways A BIT with the natural swaying of your arms.)

Second, make the pole stay STEADY ... and let your arms do the wobbling, as you canter down the runway. It's OK for your elbows to WOBBLE, but don't let them SWAY. Think of your arms as shock absorbers ... which keep the pole STEADY. This action is up-and-down ... not back-and-forth. So on every stride, the pole "bounces" up and down a bit ... but doesn't sway at all side-to-side. It's actually EASIER to do this with a high pole carry than by holding it as low as you do.

Next step is to figure out how to drop your pole WEIGHTLESSLY. Best to learn this on the track ... away from any box. Get the feel for how it balances as you run, and then gradually drops. As it drops, PLANT the pole, doing most of the work with your top arm. Just use the bottom arm as the fulcrum. End up with both arms stretched high ... ready to take off.

Once you get the hang of that, THEN ... and only then ... you can start working out your steps (still on the track), and figure out at what point in your run you should let the pole start dropping, and at what point you'll complete your plant.

This really has to be second nature before you try to do it on the runway, with a real box.

Next, put a towel down on the track, and practice aiming for that ... as if it's the box. Ya gotta be able to hit the towel CONSISTENTLY ... or you'll never be able to hit the box consistently.

Most importantly, I don't think this is the type of thing that I can teach you over the internet. I think you need a coach by your side while you're learning all this ... giving you instant feedback, and supporting your experimentation.

Don't ask me on which exact step that you should begin to lower the pole, because I can't tell you. You need to practice this over and over again ... until it's built into your muscle memory. It's not about counting steps ... it's about FEELING the right time to drop the pole, and then following the instincts that you've learned from 1,000s of pole drops. However, I would guess that you'll start getting positive results with a weightless pole carry even after only 50-100 runs ... I know I did ... all within the first week of experimentation. It's really not very difficult ... once you put your mind to it.

One last thing ... you may not think you're leaning back during your run, but you ARE. You HAVE to be, becuz the pole is too far forward. If the pole's too far forward, then to balance this, your body is leaning too far back. To run at the optimal body angle (like a sprinter), you have to make the pole feel weightless.

The rest is up to you ... and your coach!

Kirk

Kirk

christopher_cochran wrote:or is it even relevant to a successful jump? Thanks.

Oh it definitely is.

Kirk has all of the really good info in his post, but I'll tell you what i tell the kids I coach about "swaying" or "pumping your arms...

Imagine wadding up a piece of paper to throw. The tighter you wad it up, the further you'll be able to throw it. But if you leave it loose and don't wad it up very tight, it doesn't go nearly as far when you throw it, or hit an object with nearly as much energy. Same thing applies to your approach... If your arms are flailing around, out away from your body, your proverbial 'paper wad' isn't wadded up very tight, so it's not going to go as far or carry as much energy when you throw it.

On the contrary, if your arms move minimally, and you have good running mechanics, your proverbial 'paper wad' is wadded up quite a bit tighter, allowing you to be faster and hit the box with more energy. HOWEVER, so that there are no misunderstandings, you don't want to be 'stiff' when you run or anything... don't overdo it.

I don't know if that's the best way to explain it, but it's the best i've come up with so far

One trick you can try is to learn the carry and free drop is doing walking plants, then jogging plants, then running plants with ONLY ONE HAND on the pole (the top hand, your right hand). Running with the pole with a single hand grip will teach you to balance the pole naturally, no coach required. Then progress by adding a one finger and thumb grip with your left hand.

Pumping the pole is virtually impossible without a tight grip on the left hand

It may also help you to close up your grip by a fist or two.

I like BadMother and Barefoot's advice too.

Kirk

And if you can pull off a full run hitting Kirk's towel with a perfectly timed "one handed run and plant" you can do the same with two hands on the pole with no "pumping".

I have never understood how the pumping takes hold, but I usually see it in entire groups or teams of vaulters. Once you master the free drop and smooth carry... teach it to your friends please.

Pole carry is too low. If you look at the video and stop it about mid run you'll see your right hand is down by your thigh. That causes the left hand to be at around your belly button. What I like to see (somebody elses idea I'm sure) is for the right hand to be around the top of the hip and the left serve only as a fulcrum point right in front of the sternum. Take a look at your chest area right before plant. You're almost twisted to a right angle away from the box to the right. This is caused by the right hand too far behind you during the run whereas, if you had the right hand around your hip and it moved up the side of the body and straight up to the top (all right hand concentration here) to plant, your shoulders would stay square. I'm pointing these things out because the other guys are dead on giving you tips on how to stop the pole bouncing while you run. Another thing (that I wouldn't mind some comments on from the others) I don't feel it's necessary to have a death grip on the pole during the run up with either hand. I see so many vaulters (can't tell from the video if you're one or not) that grip really tight with one or the other or both hands during the run up. No need for that. I feel that it causes everything to get even more tight and confined which might be a cause of swaying, bouncing or whatever anybody would call it. If both hands are lose or open during run up, upper body should be more relaxed and able to run faster and more controlled. Just a couple of thoughts...................Later..................Mike

Here's my two cents worth...
From your first step, your right arm is fully extended (no elbow bend). That may be because your grip appears too wide. If your elbow were bent a little, it could be the 'linkage' in the system that allows the pole to remain relatively stable as your body moves up and down as you run. Think of a car's suspension. As the car is driven over rough roads, the suspension compensates for the irregularities in the road and allows the car body to be relatively free of up and down motion. Your body goes up and down as you run (although this should be minimized), but you want the pole to be free of that motion. The position of the pole to begin (as has been pointed out in previous posts), and the articulation of your arms create the linkage that can allow the pole to "float" as you run and drop your pole.

Do you know what a "steadycam" is? Check it out and think that you want your arms to provide that functionality.

(Other posters, please feel free to challenge this concept. )

souleman wrote: Another thing (that I wouldn't mind some comments on from the others) I don't feel it's necessary to have a death grip on the pole during the run up with either hand. I see so many vaulters (can't tell from the video if you're one or not) that grip really tight with one or the other or both hands during the run up. No need for that. I feel that it causes everything to get even more tight and confined which might be a cause of swaying, bouncing or whatever anybody would call it. If both hands are lose or open during run up, upper body should be more relaxed and able to run faster and more controlled. Just a couple of thoughts...................Later..................Mike

Mike... I had a debate with a fellow coach about this very topic... it came down to Isi vs Bubka. I think Bubka's closed grip is preferable, but allow my vaulters the open hand style of Isi if they can't manage the flexibility required to carry closed grip. Where young vaulters develop problems using a loose top grip is they sometimes re-grip on take off or grip tight with the bottom hand during the plant resulting in a plant which incorrectly positions the prebend of the pole. Also in favor of the strong Bubka top hand grip is that it sets the athlete up for a solid top hand at take-off. My fellow coach thinks its imperative to have the closed top grip. I find in a limited high school season, that if there is no issue using the Isi style open grip for the vaulter in question, that we usually have bigger fish to fry.

master wrote:Here's my two cents worth...
From your first step, your right arm is fully extended (no elbow bend). That may be because your grip appears too wide. If your elbow were bent a little, it could be the 'linkage' in the system that allows the pole to remain relatively stable as your body moves up and down as you run. Think of a car's suspension. As the car is driven over rough roads, the suspension compensates for the irregularities in the road and allows the car body to be relatively free of up and down motion. Your body goes up and down as you run (although this should be minimized), but you want the pole to be free of that motion. The position of the pole to begin (as has been pointed out in previous posts), and the articulation of your arms create the linkage that can allow the pole to "float" as you run and drop your pole.

I think this is exactly right. The pole moving about throws the entire system off balance and is very inefficient. When explaining how this might effect my vaulters runs, I have them grab a large pole and have them saw the air with it to see how it affects their balance while standing flat footed, feet together. It takes far more effort to remain balanced when the pole is moving... that effort is wasted energy and decreased precision of the run, plant, and take-off.

good morning,

looks like your right grip is open?

you have to close the grip on the right and get the wrist under the pole with the left.. do it by the Petrov description...

maybe too wide.. by a touch...

dj

souleman wrote: ... I don't feel it's necessary to have a death grip on the pole during the run up with either hand. I see so many vaulters ... that grip really tight with one or the other or both hands during the run up. No need for that. I feel that it causes everything to get even more tight and confined which might be a cause of swaying, ... If both hands are lose or open during run up, upper body should be more relaxed and able to run faster and more controlled.

Agreed.

Barefoot wrote: ... I think Bubka's closed grip is preferable, but allow my vaulters the open hand style of Isi if they can't manage the flexibility required to carry closed grip. ...

I prefer a loose grip ... with almost all the weight on your 2 thumbs and 2 forefingers ... tightening only during the raising of the pole during the plant. This goes for both hands. My rationale is that it allows the pole to be held in a more natural (more upright) position during the run, without any strain on the top wrist. And it's easy enough to clasp the pole tightly as you plant. I don't buy the argument that your pole will twist in your hand when you "regrip" on the plant. After all ... unless you're a beginning vaulter ... you're gripping tightly with at least the thumb and forefinger, so the pole won't rotate inadvertently.

Altho it may seem to some that you need a death grip with lots of guck from the start of the run, I don't think that's true in practice. As long as you have strong hands ... and confidence in your grip ... tightening up your grip during the plant is easy. Even with very little guck.

Barefoot wrote: ... Also in favor of the strong Bubka top hand grip is that it sets the athlete up for a solid top hand at take-off. My fellow coach thinks its imperative to have the closed top grip. ...

I don't understand this at all. As long as you clasp the pole "solidly" by the time the pole hits the box, you're going to have a "solid top hand". No? Again, for Beginners I can understand this, but not for Intermediates and Elites.

Kirk