trying to fix my plant and take off

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RudiWhoop
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trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby RudiWhoop » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:25 pm

Ok. So I've been working ALOT on my plant and take off, and I’m finally able to make some of the adjustments necessary. Don’t get me wrong, it still needs a lot of improvement but it’s getting better :)
I do not have a coach, so I’m just trying to figure things out by myself, so I would really appreciate any comments about my vaulting :)

In my opinion the most important things I’m doing wrong are;
- lowering my left arm to much before initiating the plant.
- having a late plant
- being under.

I also struggle with the never ending frustration of what to do with the left arm. I've always had the problem that it's just collapsing, combined with an arched back that is so bad it could make Mr. Canali cry :P
I’m trying to do it "bubka style" with pushing through the shoulders, but I’m not sure if I’m doing it right, or if I’m just blocking :S

Anyways, here’s a video from todays practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQrzHI0X ... tube_gdata

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KirkB
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Re: trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:46 pm

RudiWhoop wrote: I also struggle with the never ending frustration of what to do with the left arm. I've always had the problem that it's just collapsing, combined with an arched back that is so bad it could make Mr. Canali cry :P
I’m trying to do it "bubka style" with pushing through the shoulders, but I’m not sure if I’m doing it right, or if I’m just blocking

Nope. You're not doing it right - you're blocking. There's actually not much wrong with the bottom arm collapsing. Don't worry - the pole will bend just fine without any help from the bottom arm!

Personally, I don't like jagodins - I think they teach you bad habits (like blocking) - but maybe that's just me. If you're going to do jagodins, I'll let someone that's had good success with them comment on this.

Meanwhile, I agree that you're leaning back and you're under.

I wouldn't call it a late plant - I'd call it a "reaching" plant. It's odd how you reach forward with your bottom arm, yet you kinda reach back with your top arm. Sorta a "roundhouse" plant. You notice how you immediately lean back as you do this?

Work on keeping your body posture either straight upright, or leaning forward slightly. NEVER lean back! To achieve this, you'll have to change your plant technique from a roundhouse style to a more straight up style - whatever you want to call that. I called mine a "through-the-shoulder" plant, and you can read details of it here http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=15483&p=111420&hilit=kirk+thru+shoulder#p111420 on Post #12 - Plant.

Note that this takes a lot more shoulder flexibility than it looks like you have right now, so don't expect overnight miracles.

Good luck!

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

RudiWhoop
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Re: trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby RudiWhoop » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:08 am

Thanks a lot. Will keep working on those things.

But first back again to that left arm! :) Almost everyone tells me that a collapsed left arm isn't a problem, but for me I really think it is. First of all have you EVER seen someone jump high with a collapsed left arm? And I'm talking about a REALLY collapsed left arm! Just check out this picture:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97721522@N07/9084318238/


I can't see how this is going to do me any good :P


Wouldn't it be better to rather block than to collapse? Of course I'm working on being able to do it "Bubka style", but I'm just saying there are 6 meter jumpers blocking, but there has never been a 6m jumper with a collapsed left arm! :P


Rudi

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KirkB
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Re: trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:35 pm

RudiWhoop wrote: ... have you EVER seen someone jump high with a collapsed left arm? And I'm talking about a REALLY collapsed left arm!

Wouldn't it be better to rather block than to collapse? Of course I'm working on being able to do it "Bubka style", but I'm just saying there are 6 meter jumpers blocking, but there has never been a 6m jumper with a collapsed left arm! :P

Rudi

I can understand your thought process re the collapsed left arm, but I can't agree with it.

You are focusing ONLY on the bottom arm. Instead, you should be focusing on your entire vault - especially on takeoff (re this particular issue).

If you focus on getting the plant up high and jumping into the takeoff (with a free takeoff) then your arm won't collapse nearly as much. It may SEEM to you like it's still collapsing too much, but believe me, that's not the problem.

The solution is to not be "under" on takeoff, and to NOT block with your bottom arm. That way, the pole will have much more chance to bend ON ITS OWN, and the leverage of you hanging with all (or almost all) of your weight on your fully-stretched top arm will be enough to bend it out of the way. At the moment, you're getting "clothes-lined" because you're under AND because you're leaning back on takeoff. Fix those two problems, and you're well on your way to "fixing" your collapsing bottom arm - not that it needs fixing in the first place.

BTW, don't bother trying to solve this with jagodins. Like I said, I think jagodins teach you bad habits - like blocking.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby trayoates » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:20 pm

i think what Kirk is trying to point out is that in your video if you watch your chest as you swing up (or should seeing as youre doing a drill where you dont), your left arm blocks all that swing!! have you ever tried to do a swing up on a rope? try doing that, but with a straight left arm... pretty hard right?

my opinion is that the right arm (top) is the most important. if it isn't as tall as possible it doesnt matter what you do with the bottom arm.. now the bottom arm is there just to keep the pole from smacking you in the face!

RudiWhoop
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Re: trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby RudiWhoop » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:38 am

I kind of get the point, however my problem has never been the swing, but the pole smacking me in my face and raising my grip has. I have a 70 cm push off, and I’m not even jumping 14 feet :P I’m not really concerned about my swing getting hurt, that has always been the best thing about my vault, being an old gymnast makes it pretty easy. I feel like I should try to fix this problem without the swing, because I normally swing no matter what. Also I feel I need to fix this problem separately. I’d rather get tips on how to do it right, than making me discard Jagodins :P I know I’m going to sound a lot like Alan Launder when I say this, but the great man himself did Jagodins, so there must be some value to the exercise. Just sayin :D You all say that the right arm is the most important and everything, but again; WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THE LEFT ARM!?!?!?!?! O:) it’s a part of the jump. And letting it collapse might not be that bad, but it isn’t ideal! It must have an important role, when there’s no 6m jumpers with a collapsed arm. Or no actually; there’s probably no 5m jumpers either. However, there are 5m jumpers leaning back with a roundhouse plant, and an under take off. I feel you guys don’t have your priorities right on what can make me jump higher :)

Rudi

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KirkB
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Re: trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:24 pm

Perhaps what's missing is that we haven't seen any of your competition vaults. We've only seen you doing Jagodins. Can you post some vid, please?

I never said don't do Jagodins. I only said that I personally don't like them, and I said that I don't think they're going to help this particular issue of your vault.

Remember that you are a 4.05 vaulter - not a 5.00 or 6.00 vaulter, so you need to get a lot more of the basics down, before worrying about emulating Bubka.

It is also just your interpretation that to clear 6.00 you need to press with your bottom arm. This is an argument that has been discussed on PVP for most of the last decade. If you research this, you will find that many of us do NOT believe that Bubka purposely pushed with his bottom arm at all. It is an incorrect assumption that because the pole bends so early he MUST have used his bottom arm to bend it. Believe me, it's because he wasn't under on takeoff, and he wasn't leaning back on takeoff (and a whole bunch of other things)!

So I'm back to my original advice.

But please post some vids, so we can assess your technique better than just hearing from you that you have a good swing. What you must mean is that for a 4.05 vaulter, your swing isn't "all that bad". This is different than saying that you have a good swing, and until we see it, we can't assess it one way or another.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

RudiWhoop
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Re: trying to fix my plant and take off

Unread postby RudiWhoop » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:09 pm

KirkB wrote: But please post some vids, so we can assess your technique better than just hearing from you that you have a good swing. What you must mean is that for a 4.05 vaulter, your swing isn't "all that bad". This is different than saying that you have a good swing, and until we see it, we can't assess it one way or another.

Kirk



I have a competition on monday. Will post a vid asap :)


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