Creatine

[AVC Coach]

I have been taking Creatine since the 9th grade and I am now 28. It is the best overall supp on the market. NO it is NOT A STEROID. If you are a hardgainer and you are working you butt off in the gym it will not hurt you, you might gain weight but that is coming from more water. I am a true believer in taking supplements the big two Protein and Creatine have been in my house since I started to train hard. I have never had any long term side effects I think I would know by now. As far as price you got to be kidding me go to bodybuilding.com and get a tub it will last you 3 months. If you would like any info PM me and I can give you the low down on brands and kind to get.

I understand the pros and cons of creatine very well, but as a high school coach, I would be very reluctant to suggest any supplements to young athletes. It's all cookies and cream until someone has a serious adverse side effect! There's no mulligan for that accusation!

[kev44000]

My daughter years ago played fastpitch softball. 5'6 110 lbs. Could barely at times hit the ball out of the infield. I put her on creatine and she went to 130 lbs and hitting 200 foot homeruns. When she went to college the coach said no more, he did not want to chance the drug testing. I am the same with my son no supplements of any kind, I will not take the chance of a failed drug test. Also the extra weight gain for a vaulter. They will get there soon enough.

[VTechVaulter]

are you referring to failing a drug test due to creatine itself or due to the chance of contamination of the supplement?

[kcvault]

There is the a little bit of weight gain from storing excess water but, its 1-2 lbs, 3 max if your not taking way too much of it.

If you are not a very light pole vaulter I would not risk it. From my experience 3 or 4 tenths in pole stiffness usually= about 2-4 inches in vault height. 3-4 tenths is only about 2 pounds in added stiffness. This might not matter for a light vaulter or a vaulter like Brian who has a very high take off and does not bend the pole much. But for the average vaulter I would say two or three pounds makes a huge difference. Also the people I have known to take creatine generally put on more like 10-15 pounds. I know some of my best meets were meets that I made a conscious effort to eat and sometimes drink very little (Making a 1 ma by two pound difference max) but I say even the smallest amount of weight gain can make a huge difference.

---Kasey

[VaultPurple]

But for the average vaulter I would say two or three pounds makes a huge difference

I'm up about 10lb more than I was last year at this time, and my grip is up about 10inches from this time last year (so from 132-135 last year to 143-147 range this year). So I wouldn't look to much into weight gain being that big of a deal. Most people gain so much weight with creatine because it allows their cells to hold more water so they will repair faster and build muscle more easily. (And right now my weight I do not think is all muscle, dining hall just wont quit frying all their food!.... gonna try and cut that off in December)

[rainbowgirl28]

But for the average vaulter I would say two or three pounds makes a huge difference

I'm up about 10lb more than I was last year at this time, and my grip is up about 10inches from this time last year (so from 132-135 last year to 143-147 range this year). So I wouldn't look to much into weight gain being that big of a deal. Most people gain so much weight with creatine because it allows their cells to hold more water so they will repair faster and build muscle more easily. (And right now my weight I do not think is all muscle, dining hall just wont quit frying all their food!.... gonna try and cut that off in December)

132-147... you're still a pretty light guy. KC is saying it could be a bigger deal for a guy who already weighs 170 or 180 to gain 10 pounds.

[RamboRich]

For what its worth... I have been on and off creatine for the past 10 years. Most of those have not been training for pole vault. I feel that creatine is a great supplement for body builders. If you want to lift 2 hours plus for multiple days in a row, Creatine helps tremendously! It allows you to lift longer and not get as sore. It also can give great 'pumps'. I used it sporadically when I hit a plateau, cycling on for about 6 weeks and then off 6 weeks to maintain my strength gains. About 2 years ago I started training for the vault again after being retired for roughly 9 yrs. Vault training is much more specialized than just weight lifting. Now, I only lift two days per week in the weight room. Mostly legs with high weight low reps. I am also two days per week in gymnastics room and plyos/running once or twice a week. Gymnastics and/or Crossfit style workouts are the BEST!! If you want to get strong, forget about creatine, make a pair of homemade rings and learn to do a muscle up. Right now, the only benefit that I can see from using a creatine like supplement would be to help get you 'juiced' before a workout if you are lifting at 5am or something. Other than that IMO vaulters don’t really need to take it. BTW when I took creatine I didn’t really see much size gain, maybe 5 pounds.

"and by my God I can leap over a wall" 2 Sam. 22:30

[sduvinage]

There is the a little bit of weight gain from storing excess water but, its 1-2 lbs, 3 max if your not taking way too much of it.

If you are not a very light pole vaulter I would not risk it. From my experience 3 or 4 tenths in pole stiffness usually= about 2-4 inches in vault height. 3-4 tenths is only about 2 pounds in added stiffness. This might not matter for a light vaulter or a vaulter like Brian who has a very high take off and does not bend the pole much. But for the average vaulter I would say two or three pounds makes a huge difference. Also the people I have known to take creatine generally put on more like 10-15 pounds. I know some of my best meets were meets that I made a conscious effort to eat and sometimes drink very little (Making a 1 ma by two pound difference max) but I say even the smallest amount of weight gain can make a huge difference.

---Kasey

Kasey

Do you mean that the extra weight gain can be benificial.
Im 5-6, 5-7 and weight 123
I have a very good strength to weight ratio.
thanks

--Simon

[kcvault]

Do you mean that the extra weight gain can be benificial.
Im 5-6, 5-7 and weight 123
I have a very good strength to weight ratio.
thanks

No I am saying the opposite. Strenth to weight ratio is very important. It would be more benificial to be 130 and be able to squat 300 pounds then it would be to be 140 and able to squat 300 pounds. If you put on ten pounds in mucle from there and where able to squat 400 pounds that would be even better because the strenth to weight ratio increased. However once you get up around 170lb and heavier weight gain has to be kept to a minimum no matter what. If you are 230lb it does not matter how strong you are you are not going to be a pole vaulter. The strenth to weight ratio also applies to other events. I had one athlete tell me when they weighed 165lb they could long jump 23-5 but when they weighed 160 they could long jump 25ft.

---Kasey

[sduvinage]

Got it!

[vault3rb0y]

Look at it this way- the body type of a pole vaulter-

Lower body very strong (sprinter/ long jumper) and training should include lifting.

Upper body should be gymnast strong, but without unnecessary muscles.

Upper body- IMO should not exceed strength needed to row your own body weight and do pull ups/pull overs over and over. Creatine may get you stronger, but unneccesarily stronger if you can do pull ups over and over and have a gymnastic body type.

Lower body- Creatine has been tested over and over again to increase performance in the wieght room, but there are no studies finding it's effectiveness on quick, explosive muscle fibers greater than placebo (unless someone would link me to an article). So, hypothetically an increase in leg strength will result in more explosiveness on the runway. But i have not found any articles linking creatine use to an increase in maximum top speed down the runway, or top speed in any way really. So you may get stronger in the weightroom and find your squat max going up, but when you begin speed work, there appears in difference in training effectiveness. soo, if you want to get strong and hold the water weight in your muscles for the ladies to look at.... maybe its for you!

Now, even if there were an effectiveness, your creatine supplementation would need to be so specific (as Bel mentioned) as to structure your training around your creatine supplementation (2 weeks on, 2-3 weeks off) to see an effect. Yes, it puts on weight. But does this weight correlate with PV hieght? Possibly, if it alters the body types of young athletes and develops them before they are ready? Anyone link articles of creatine use at young ages?

So in my unproffessional opinion, but as someone who talked with many coaches, doctors, sports nutritionists, for OUR SPORT the benefits are slim if any, and require very specific training plans to see the benefits. So the only people who should consider supplementation of creatine would be the top .1% of athletes that have maximized their nutrition and training habits already.



Saying that you should supplement protien and creatine is sort of crazy, because creatine is a kind of protien and most protiens come as whey protien, only one type of protien. You know what has both these "supplements" though, and different kinds of protiens too? Tunafish! Yum....

[golfdane]

Keep in mind that Creatine is naturally produced by the body, unless someone can cite where they think the NCAA banned creatine that is probably incorrect.

In lay terms creatine pushes slightly more energy into the muscle (atp/cp system) during the recovery process, which allow for more reps during a work out.

Meanwhile it needs to be used properly, because it has to do with recovery it ties into use with the filtering from the kidneys, it is thought that if used improperly kidney stones can ensue...

Talk to a doctor or an RD but the punch line is it needs to be used just like a tapered scale w/ pairing on training scale, (use it for 2 weeks off for 2-3)

Creatine in itself does not cause kidney stones. The "link" to kidney stones is because kidney stones are linked to Creatinine, which is a byproduct from the muscles when it uses creatine. The rate of which creatinine is formed depends on musclemass, and not on creatine levels in the muscles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatinine

Creatine is found in a lot of food sources (meat for instance), and cannot be a banned substance list. Some might benefit from having extra creatine supplements, and some won't.
As Bel stated: It will allow you to do more anaerobic repetions (which is why it's mostly beneficial for explosive sports), allowing for a more efficient workout (hence the growth/development of the muscles). It is a necessary ingredient when the muscles needs to synthesize ATP, which is THE main energy source when doing explosive workouts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_systems#ATP-PC_System

A word of caution (especially for coaches):
There seems to be some possible side effects, that might be reason for not experimenting with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine#Side_effects_and_warnings