3rd to last Left distance?

[Polevaulter2012]

I was wondering how many feet away from the box these vaulters are on the 3rd to last left. If anyone knows.
1)Sergey Bubka
2)Steve Hooker
3)Maksim Tarasov
4)Brad Walker
5)Renaud lavillenie

[dj]

T. Mack was at 54-8/16.75m at the trials in 2004

Bubka was looking for a 17.00 meter mark in an LA indoor meet..

If you extrapolate from McGinnis's data..

Bubka's last two steps… 2.10m and 2.04m would confirm something close to 56 feet/17.00m-17.16m meters.


dj

ps... macks was with a 16-4/5.00m grip and a 5.90 very good high clearence.. and Bubka was gripping maybe a little over 5m and i think may have jumped 19-8???

[Polevaulter2012]

Hey thanks dj.

[wurster490]

Hooker is around 18m I believe.

[dj]

hey

18m... which would put him out and reaching... unless he is running (average) 10.0m/sec over the last 6 steps...

just food for thought.....

dj

[Barto]

Mid distance is most easily thought about in terms of where you want to take off from. If you want to takeoff at 12', then you need to be about 49'. If you want to takeoff at 14', then you need to be about 55'-56'. It is pretty accurate 99% of the time.

[dj]

hye

If you want to takeoff at 12', then you need to be about 49'. If you want to takeoff at 14', then you need to be about 55'-56'. It is pretty accurate 99% of the time.

those numbers are pretty much dead on for the grip associated with each takeoff.... and the speed needed to move that grip to vertical..

both match the chart..

that night in LA Bubka ended up hitting approx... 17.30 and 4.30... on his jumps..

dj

[dj]

Good Morning,

Six Step Numbers…

Those that have no desire to understand or use a six step "MID"...... need not read any further… honestly..
Those that will never change from four to six… need not read any further.
I'm not posting this for "argument"....so those need not read further…

discussion yes please..........

This post is to explain that stretching is not a good thing in the approach run... and that monitoring the sixth step is the ONLY way, other than chance, to monitor and correct what the vaulter does from that point forward....

Forward… to faster, higher and more fun…………….

I do know that a "MID" of 17.50m/57 feet @ 9.70mps for the men's world record is much, much more closely aligned to physics than a mark at 58 feet/17.80m @ 9.4mps.

and for the women...that a "MID" of 51 feet/15.60m @ 8.4mps is more aligned with physics than a "MID" of 16.00m/52 feet @ 8.1mps.

Over the last couple of years I'm finding more and more Approach Runs, men and women, that have "MIDS" far removed from the "physics".

My frustration is this, I continue to find "resistance" from even some of the world's best coaches that feel the "MID" has to be out 50 to 70cm (for world class jumps @ 17.80-18m/58-60feet for men ... 15.80/52-53 feet for women) from a sound, none stretched stride length. Resistance in even agreeing to compare the data....just "comparing" the numbers with what they are doing now.

In addition to that I'm actually finding "excitement" and approval from the coaches to the athletes that they have numbers that are that far out, but the coach still complains about "poor" technique...

from coach....

"he/she still stretched a little, posture was off a little over the last two steps, plant a little late, needed a little more pole speed, but man was that an almost great jump jump"!!!

World Class men's' numbers at 58 feet /17.80m are being reported AND supported, when logic tells us that the men vaulters that are jumping below the world record and that are hitting a mark over/out from 17.50/57'(43' 4 step mark) are stretching into the takeoff. (and the fact that the world's greatest pole vaulter set the long standing world record with a mark that could not have been outside 17.50… based on his last 2/4 stride data) I have observed 5.50 meter jumpers that feel there "MID" should be outside of 17.50 meters, stretch in practice and in meets and become frustrated that they can't "do it right", do what their coaches have been teaching them and have "hit a wall" with no improvement for the past 3 years.

Stretching the steps a lot or a little creates "under", none "free" takeoffs, late plants, poor posture, loss of speed, flat takeoffs.. forced loading of the pole, squashed poles, broken poles, low pole speed, injury, inconsistency, frustration from the vaulter, mental issues because I day, one jump they look like a world record holder and the next meet like a beginner. Mental issues because the "issue" because coach nor the athlete knows or accepts the point on the runway six steps from the takeoff can be "that" important.

On the women's side data shows that the women's world record was set with a six step mark of approximately 15.50m/50'8"/(38' 4 step mark)..

while overseas for the past four years I saw women training with 16 meter "MIDS" ......... stretching into the takeoff.....they continue to struggle in practice… Occasionally they would "push" out of the back stronger, get their "mid" closer and have a good jump.. with the closer "MID" and better jump they got a good pole bend, good pole speed and penetration.... SO they would "think", go to a bigger pole… but again, next jump on bigger pole, they don't push out enough, hit "out" at the "mid' .....stretched, slow down, took off flat.. less pole speed, less penetration, unsafe jump.. etc..

get frustrated that they (and the coach agrees and blames the athlete) you can't use the "bigger" pole or perform the same "good" jump you just had with the small pole!!! They did have some good success at meets (but inconsistNT)because they would have adrenalin, more speed and a "MID" closer to the speed and grip.

I have stated the 'Numbers" before from the 2009 world championships.. good women's vaults came from "MIDS" of 15.30/15.60 or 50-51 feet sis step "MIDS" (37-4 to 38-4 four step "MID") and bad jumps came from "MIDS" 40 to 50cm out from those numbers!!! That is 14 to 18 inches at the 4 step "MID" or over 16 meters/52 feet. Even a world class jumper cannot get to a correct takeoff points from a "MID" that far out.

Obviously some jumpers get ok jumps with "MIDS" that far out… we have seen it.. BUTT that is what has us fooled. We want to accept the "exception" because we don't know how or what to change!!

That is why the sixth step out needs to be used by everyone at all times as a correct monitor… the math "physics" is done and tested.. all you have to do is see if your athlete needs an adjustment and coach.

When you stretch you increase the 'ground"/support time, when you stretch the hips are "tilted" in the wrong direction.. when the hips are tilted wrong the posture is wrong, when you stretch the COM becomes low… when you stretch you have to move the pole a little more (swing) forward and back for balance. When the hips are out of position you HAVE to "step under" and wait to push up and off the ball of the foot until the hips pass vertical.. when you step under you "must" "force bend" the pole to keep the hips from being "sucked" under even more.

Why is it important to be "ON" six steps from the takeoff… just like it's important to have the correct "on" first step it's equally or more important to know six steps from the plant. A check point that goes with the flow and dynamic of the vault...

Reason why… First; if you are "on" six steps from the plant it becomes "easier" to continue to drop the pole and not interrupt the process by stretching if you are out, or chopping if you are in/under.

Second; all the scientist will tell you that an athlete, long jump or pole vault will "steer" or adjust 4 to 6 steps (IF they are off) from the takeoff. It is very important to be very close to "ON" from six so "IF" you have to steer it will be slight and hopefully "steering" will have little effect on the speed, posture, plant or takeoff.

Third; the "physics" of acceleration mandates that it be progressive. What you do on the first step "predicts" were you will be each successive step to the takeoff. Look at Tyson Gay in the Bolt 9.58 100 meter race. He was already "off" on the first step. He did make some adjustments but he continued to be "off" at 20, 30, 40, 50 meters and on to the finish. Tyson and His coach knows where he should be 10, 20, 30 , 40 meters from the start and I know they have trained "by the numbers"… In the sprint we know that to run 9.80sec. you need to be at 30.25 meters from the start… in the vault you need a six step mark 17.50m from the box to run 9.7mps and grip 5.18m,…… …but in the heat of battle.. Gay "short" stepped his start and got "behind". Without a pole in their hands long jumpers and sprinters have an outside chance to make adjustments, Maybe.. but with a pole and only 18/20 steps and 40m/ 42 meter Approach Run it is impossible to make an adjustment.. if you do you will lose speed and have to "compensate" in an event where speed is very important to grip, pole size and moving that grip and pole to vertical.

Maybe I created the stubbornness, the resistance by trying to explain (and being persistent) as to why stretching is a bad thing in any of the events that are speed based. Why a correct run has to follow the "physics".. The chart in itself "looks" like more than it is.. in base terms it is a check point… accurate.. more accurate than 4… why have a check mark "after" the speed has been lost, after the stretching has begun… after the focus should be on moving the pole up and taking off out.

Those with an open mind and a willingness to improve the run of your vaulters go to my website.. http://www.oneappraochrun.com and down load the chart. When you vaulter is jumping good compare the six step "MID"… do the same on bad jumps..

I think you will get the best run very quickly… plus you can train by running the correct approach run numbers n the track..

Just like long jumping… there is no reason not to have a perfect run before you go to competition… make slight adjustments because of adrenalin/wind .. the chart shows you how to adjust to more or less speed … or more or less grip…

Thanks
Good luck

dj

[s_r_j]

Hy, I apologize for my english if I write wrong but I use google translate.I was also vaulter 1 year ago, but the theory does not know So I have a plea if you can help me. I am interested on comparative study of moment running (moment running the last 10 meters) and weight vaulter and coefficient of pole indince.
1.Pole used
2.Waist jumper
3.Speed on the last 10 m to take-off

Can someone help me?

[dj]

hey

check the chart at

www.oneapproachrun.com

this will give you the speed, grip, jump height.. average takeoff point for each grip and speed...

these were mathematically calculated from a "comparative" proportionate study done in 1971-72, comparing an average 14 foot vault to an average 16 foot vault.

They have shown to be highly accurate for 40 years.

dj