Toby's PR Jump is up on Neo Vault

[lonestar]

[quote="badamick"]First of all, the argument is not about badamick or lobinger; Ask the Europeans was a reference to asking European spectators (where track is the number two sport) how they react to vault celebrations - not how Europeans vaulters celebrate. It is a question of whether we should reduce our sport to spectacle, where the line should be drawn, what types of celebrations are appropriate and what is best for pole vaulting. Similar to the feel good comments made today, post vault celebrations can take on an illogic akin to “my vault wasn’t good enough by itself so I have to do something completely outrageous now.â€Â

[wubka]

Your negativity and insults are not welcome on this site. If you want to discuss celebration being right or wrong, then do so, but save your mud slinging for private messages.[/quote]

I have not directed any comments to you. The comments to my friends were made in jest only (cpvault and neovault) who are willing participants in the exchange and have confirmed such via i.m.

I am not debating celebration as right or wrong, only the type of celebration. Toby's jump was a great jump, no doubt about it. However, we will have to agree to disagree; It is rational debate that has not been welcome on this subject.

Toby, congratulations to you and good luck this Summer.

[rainbowgirl28]

I think that people who do not know you guys will interpret this thread the wrong way.

[Carolina Extreme]

Badamick I have got to agree with Lonestar. It really bothered me too. You, Neovault and Cpvault may be the best of friends, and you may rag each other all the time. But when your thoughts are reduced to writing, and we can't see the comic intent, those words really come across wrong. My first thoughts were that I couldn't believe you would say such things to Neovault and Cpvault. This isn't the place for it. IM's are a better place for that, but even better... if you can't say something nice, don't say it at all. No mudslinging, or talk about anyones mother.

I'm sure you are a great guy. And your questioning how much celebration is too much is ripe for debate. We just don't want to run people away from this great website because someone reads into a message wrongly. Just something to consider.

[vaultin chris]

Im just waiting for someone to pull out a cellphone from underneath the mat.
Go Saints!

SHHHH! u told everybody my secret. i already had it set up. back to the drawin board

[KYLE ELLIS]

whats wrong with mudslinging? I was having fun reading the comments back and forth, and if they im each other I wouldnt of got my daily laugh! Everyone knows you guys are friends so no harm done, we are all pole vaulters on here not ballet dancers, I bet I wasnt the only one that got a kick out of it. What about Toby's reno celebration did that not look like a pre planned celebration? Oh well it doesnt matter its entertainment and no matter how much people bad mouths stupid behavior it draws attention to the sport. And after all the stupid rules thrown at the vault I loved what Lobinger did, that is exactly what I felt like doing after the new short pegs!!

[lonestar]

whats wrong with mudslinging? I was having fun reading the comments back and forth, and if they im each other I wouldnt of got my daily laugh! Everyone knows you guys are friends so no harm done, we are all pole vaulters on here not ballet dancers, I bet I wasnt the only one that got a kick out of it. What about Toby's reno celebration did that not look like a pre planned celebration? Oh well it doesnt matter its entertainment and no matter how much people bad mouths stupid behavior it draws attention to the sport. And after all the stupid rules thrown at the vault I loved what Lobinger did, that is exactly what I felt like doing after the new short pegs!!

Until Badamick's follow-up to my comment, it did not appear from the writing that it was friendly bantering, it appeared that he was taking nasty cheap-shots at the other guys. If you've spent any time on message boards, that kind of crap gets real old and turns people off, plus it destroys the purpose of the thread. If it is indeed friendly and these guys are just joking around, fine, but save it for the lounge forum. Otherwise, it just looks like these guys are hating on eachother at the expense of the people wanting to read about Toby.

By the way, I agree that stupid behavior does draw attention to the sport. I see nothing wrong with what Toby did, and if I had cleared 5.81, I'd have dropped an F-bomb or 2 myself! I think it was awesome what Lobinger did too, make those snooty Europeans gasp and blush a bit. One thing I don't understand is why do so many Americans think we have to model ourselves after Europeans? What's wrong with expressing ourselves the way we want to, why should we have to be like them? I thought this country was established exactly for the purpose of freedom of expression?!? I would have loved to have seen the look on the monarch's faces when Lobinger showed 'em the moon! Track will never be the #1 or 2 sport in America because it's too damn boring! Most Americans would rather see Earnhardt Jr. trading paint with Jeff Gordon, Shaq breaking a backboard, Mariano Rivera pitching a no-hitter, Messier hitting a slapshot into the net, or Ricky Williams breaking tackles for a td, than watching someone run a 10k. Pole vaulting is exciting, and guys like Toby make it more exciting. I think Fraley is doing a great job of promoting our sport, and even though he probably wouldn't have liked what Toby did, it gave the sport attention. The only attention we DON'T need are more deaths or catastrophic injuries.

[wubka]

whats wrong with mudslinging? I was having fun reading the comments back and forth, and if they im each other I wouldnt of got my daily laugh! Everyone knows you guys are friends so no harm done, we are all pole vaulters on here not ballet dancers, I bet I wasnt the only one that got a kick out of it. What about Toby's reno celebration did that not look like a pre planned celebration? Oh well it doesnt matter its entertainment and no matter how much people bad mouths stupid behavior it draws attention to the sport. And after all the stupid rules thrown at the vault I loved what Lobinger did, that is exactly what I felt like doing after the new short pegs!!

Until Badamick's follow-up to my comment, it did not appear from the writing that it was friendly bantering, it appeared that he was taking nasty cheap-shots at the other guys. If you've spent any time on message boards, that kind of crap gets real old and turns people off, plus it destroys the purpose of the thread. If it is indeed friendly and these guys are just joking around, fine, but save it for the lounge forum. Otherwise, it just looks like these guys are hating on eachother at the expense of the people wanting to read about Toby.

By the way, I agree that stupid behavior does draw attention to the sport. I see nothing wrong with what Toby did, and if I had cleared 5.81, I'd have dropped an F-bomb or 2 myself! I think it was awesome what Lobinger did too, make those snooty Europeans gasp and blush a bit. One thing I don't understand is why do so many Americans think we have to model ourselves after Europeans? What's wrong with expressing ourselves the way we want to, why should we have to be like them? I thought this country was established exactly for the purpose of freedom of expression?!? I would have loved to have seen the look on the monarch's faces when Lobinger showed 'em the moon! Track will never be the #1 or 2 sport in America because it's too damn boring! Most Americans would rather see Earnhardt Jr. trading paint with Jeff Gordon, Shaq breaking a backboard, Mariano Rivera pitching a no-hitter, Messier hitting a slapshot into the net, or Ricky Williams breaking tackles for a td, than watching someone run a 10k. Pole vaulting is exciting, and guys like Toby make it more exciting. I think Fraley is doing a great job of promoting our sport, and even though he probably wouldn't have liked what Toby did, it gave the sport attention. The only attention we DON'T need are more deaths or catastrophic injuries.

That is the best series of arguments I have heard on the subject.

[CowtownPV]

I am a big fan of Toby and I think he was caught up in th moment and wasn't thinking about what he said was going to be on the internet for everyone to see. That said we have a promotional problem in track right now. Companies do not seem to want to put money into it. Look at the entries for next weeks USATF indoor and see how many athletes are "unattached" ie no sponsor. So the real discussion is what can we do to promote the sports to fans and businesses. The Milrose meet was the only Golden Spike with men's pole vault, how many American men won price money this year indoors?

[OUvaulterUSAF]

Didn't you get the memo? it's all about the women now.

[opalkak]

Toby~

Awesome vault!

Keep celebrating, I love every last minute of them. Some day I hope I can bring smiles to the faces of vault fans like you do.

Don't worry guys it'll be our turn again soon...I hope.

[Cpvault]

I am a big fan of Toby and I think he was caught up in th moment and wasn't thinking about what he said was going to be on the internet for everyone to see. That said we have a promotional problem in track right now. Companies do not seem to want to put money into it. Look at the entries for next weeks USATF indoor and see how many athletes are "unattached" ie no sponsor. So the real discussion is what can we do to promote the sports to fans and businesses. The Milrose meet was the only Golden Spike with men's pole vault, how many American men won price money this year indoors?

The whole THG/modafonil scandal was the worst thing that could have happened to our already struggling sport. Not many companies want to be associated with track and field right now. The reason why some companies are, is the fact that it's an Olympic year (much money to be made). Year 2005 could be very problematic for our sport.