Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

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Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby dj » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:06 am

Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

I feel very strongly we need to Immediately limit the competition opening heights for High school and Youth pole vault athletes.

All 9th grade level/age14 girls must have an "opening" height of a minimum of seven (7) feet.
All 9th grade level/age 14 boys must have an "opening" height of a minimum of 9 feet (8) feet.

(and those may still be to low)

Tenth, eleventh and twelfth grade athletes would be, girls-8/9… boys 10/11………

If these were implemented we will see and immediate, positive change in SAFETY…….. AND half the "technical questions" that are continually coming up and being asked would not be an issue or excuse.

question…

What are the starting heights of your state championship…

Thanks

dj

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:35 am

In Washington state, the opening height at the state championships are 6" lower than the lowest height cleared at the qualifying meet.

I disagree that making opening height higher will make the event safer. If anything, I could see it having the opposite effect. I think your intent is that coaches not compete their kids until they are more advanced, but that's not what I see happening. I see coaches enter their kids anyway and it's scarier with the bar higher than lower.

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby AVC Coach » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:19 pm

We open up 6" below the 10th best height turned in. Especially with the younger groups, I think it's important to start low and allow these kids to get their feet wet. You never know if some kid that barely makes 5 or 6 feet today because they don't have much experience is going to get excited about the vault and put in the time, effort and energy to be a great vaulter someday.

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby dj » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:51 pm

hye

i see both of your points of view and have had the same 'thinking" process many times, myself, throughout my career...

BUT.. by continuing to do things this/that way has , sadly, has kept people in the event that should not be in the event either because they don't have the physical talent and/or will not focus on the development of the physical strength, speed and skill because the 7 footer wants to know why they cannot "invert" instead of why they are not fast enough or strong enough… this is what make the event unsafe.

and two it has lowered the overall standards….

As far as coaches entering the athlete in the meet… ..the ones that will do that are the ones that come to the first day of practice.. send the sprinters, jumpers, throwers and distance runners to a training area… looks at everyone seated, the short, slightly overweight, slow kids and says "we need point in the pole vault.. you look like a gymnast, go try it….

You can't get rid of every "stupid" coach but you can make it so the event "weeds" out athletes in a "natural" selection kind of way…

What people don't realize was "steel" vaulting was it's own best "natural selection" method… if you were not athlete enough to carry the pole down the runway you wouldn't stay in the event.

Fiberglass has changed that………… we get way to many kids that should not be in the event.. making it very unsafe…

Think about this… do they "lower" the height standard for the 110 Hurdles? NO.. this event is much, much more "unsafe" than the vault… but by the time you get to a meet the "weak" are not running.. the coach or the athlete doesn't want the "humiliation" for a kid that can't get over the hurdle…

All the "idiot' coach will do to the vaulter is tell them "what's the matter you "chicken" to get upside down..

As much as I respect you guys this is something that needs to change if we want to improve and make the event safer…. I'm to old to get it or see it done but you guys might have a chance for change….

The vault is not for any and everyone…. From (some) all the questions that have continued to be repeated over and over here on PVP it is very, very obvious that some people should not be in the event.

Remember "insanity" is the act of doing the same thing, the same way, over and over and over… and expecting a different result.

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby master » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:39 am

Your points are well taken dj. If high school was intended to be the place where future Olympians trained, rather than where teenagers got an education and had the opportunity to be exposed to individual and team sports (as well as many other worthwhile endeavors), then your proposals would be more apropos. But, as much as many if not most coaches would like to only spend time working with exceptional athletes, high school is not that venue. In pole vault it would seem that is more the purview of clubs; a place where gifted athletes who have funding to support the cost of more one-on-one coaching, can 'tryout' to earn the right to that type of training.

I believe at public schools in Oregon, if a student can pay the fee to participate in a sport, they get the opportunity to do so. They may not make varsity, but they have the right to participate and be coached. In pole vault, that can still be done safely if the coach uses good judgement and only encourages the athlete to try the "next step" as the athlete demonstrates an acceptable skill level for the preceding steps.

I have wondered what might happen if there was a test of physical condition and coordination that must be passed before a student was allowed to be coached in pole vault. Would that be allowed in a public school? How many students would even try? Would students be required to start pole vaulting in their freshman year or else they couldn't try it in a subsequent year? Would they have to meet some minimum performance standard to continue in the sport the next year. That might be the best way to develop a few good pole vaulters, but I don't see that happening in public schools.

I'll be following this thread to see how other high school coaches feel about the topic.
- master . . . http://www.plvlt.com

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby tsorenson » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:20 pm

I can see both points of view. DJ's suggestion appeals to me in some ways, but John's points drive to the heart of high school sports...teaching kids to work hard, as a team, toward a goal. Even if a kid only vaults 7' as a senior, if he/she put in the work for four years and did the best they were physically able to do, then that is a success! They have learned valuable life lessons: fitness, work ethic, teamwork, participation, and coachability. All of these things will be valuable later in life as the kids hopefully succeed in various endeavors, and hopefully become good citizens.

During the season, I help coach at a school that has a very successful track team with well over 100 kids participating, some of whom will not be likely to make varsity in any event. For better or worse, most of the best athletes are drawn into events other than pole vault. So, we are left with a lot of kids who just end up vaulting because it's fun and they get to be a part of a successful team, but unfortunately they don't stand a chance in any other event. Is this ideal for the vault coach? Not really, but my fellow coaches and I do our best to help all the kids equally, as long as they are willing to listen and do the work. It does take away from the time spent with our best vaulters, but I am proud when we can teach the more advanced kids to help coach the beginners by demonstrating drills and running workouts. I always tell the more advanced kids that mastery is shown by the ability to teach something to someone...and that I hope they will go on to become coaches someday.

Having said all this, I do envy coaches who only have 6 or 10 vaulters in their program, all of whom are good athletes. Many schools do have their best athletes vaulting, and it certainly makes it easier to develop a winning vault program. However, it's very satisfying when kids who are not natural athletes transform themselves into competitive vaulters through hard work and dedication. Every once in a while one of those kids will end up surpassing a natural athlete by the time they are seniors, because the less talented kid worked harder. I can't think of a more valuable life lesson than that! It's also great when kids who aren't the fastest or strongest can score points for their team in a highly technical event...probably the only way they would be able to do so. This mentality leads to state championship track teams.

I agree with DJ that it is frustrating to hear kids ask the same questions about inverting over and over again on this forum. I can see why many coaches get tired of posting the same answers over and over each year...it would be great if new users would take advantage of the "search" feature!! If there was one concept to be conveyed to all young vaulters and coaches: "what happens in the air is a result of what happens on the ground...what do you think we should spend our time focusing on?"

Tom

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby VaultPurple » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:56 pm

I still remember the first time I cleared a 6 foot cross bar, was one of the most exciting things ever!

That same year the highest I ever jumped in a meet was 8 feet (as a 10th grader). So by your theory I would have never been able to clear a bar in a meet and would have probably just given up and took up the two mile or something the other slow people did. Instead I worked at it and researched how to get better and went to camps. I ended up vaulting in college and am now coaching at the college level, so I am pretty happy I didn't get weeded out because I was not athletic enough.

High cross bars will in no way make the event safer, in my case it would have made it more dangerous because I had the attitude that I was going to be able to jump anything, so I had no problem trying to sling my feet over a bar a foot over my PR and getting hung on it and tumbling back down next to the box...

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby vcpvcoach » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 pm

I understand DJ's point but it would not work here in Illinois. We run separate boys and girls programs. During the indoor season, not every school has a field house to practice in and our outdoor season starts at the beginning of April. Most years, we still get snow at that time. Just two weeks ago, I was at a boys meet when it was 38* and at 20 mph head wind out of the NW. We wouldn't be able to fill the event if those standards were in place.

In California, where I started to coach, they run a coed program. The weather is mostly prefect. They had Varsity standards of 7' for girls and 9' for boys. We started training in February. JV mostly jumped at dual meets until they could jump the standards.

My point is that each state could put standards in place but that still doesn't stop knuckleheaded coaches from letting vaulters jump at bars above their abilities. This is the root of the problem. I had a junior girl start today. Seems to have a some ability from the vault but I will not let her vault at our dual meet on Wen. because she will not be ready. I have gone to invites and left varsity vaulters at home because the meet was starting at the vaulters PR. Confidence and technique is more important than clearing bars.

Plus, putting opening standards could make those same knucklehead coaches over grip their vaulters just to "get their vaulters" to jump higher. IMHO.

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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby dj » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:08 am

Good Morning…

I'm not going to "take sides' and/or answer specific questions.. I am going to write "intuitively" based on my years of experience… I applaud "drive" and the "never quit" mentality. Those of you that know me, know that if we were going to battle, that you had better bring a BIG lunch and make sure you had enough space to run or hide, running would do much good because I would catch you… that said…. I'm 99% of the time always for the "under dog" and I have an underdog mentality……my high school senior class voted me "the least likely to succeed".. I've done pretty well ..

VaultPurple .. I respect your drive and excitement… but I do think you would have reached any height set… and believe sincerely and not, derogatory or "cold" that any 9th grade boy that should be or continue in the event should jump 9 feet. Latter in this post I will use "Leo" as my example who is at what I would consider at the "minimum" physical standard. He was/is a distance runner, not over weight… 5-6/135 which gave him a strength to body weight ration that was "doable"…two (2.0 to 2.5lb) to two point five pounds per inch of height.

I will post the "steps" in five training session…that took him to 9 feet and that I used that everyone can and should use, with the "test" (minimums) markers I use and coach by… I will only use and explain the minimum that every beginner all the way to world record holders should do and will be successful IF they are will and have the opportunity to work and develop the physical skills.

More on that later………

Started this several days ago….

Good morning Master,

I have found in my over 40 years of teaching and coaching that you cannot "make" a human being do something one way or the other by saying "NO" .. we set rules and standards in an attempt to give the student "opportunity" but those "rules" are not always thought through well enough to not create more problems………

So instead of trying to "force" the coach to educate his/her self (which is truly NOT working) and to make correct choices, a few logical things can be put into place that lead to "natural" selection.

I have "considered" many, many times the thought of Publishing a book of my years of work, experience and knowledge… and I have published most of it at some point.. most in the many pages of PVP… but not all in one volume…. ("The Direct Approach to Pole Vaulting" below, stay tuned)

BUTT, and there is that dreaded "BUTT" again. I have found that "reading the book" and even doing the event personally does not help most coaches interpret the material correctly and to learn the correct way to teach the event.

With that in mind.. that is solely why I have tried to teach at as many camps/clinics that I can instead of writing the book…. I have tried to do "hands" on mentoring… but it takes more than one camp or one clinic for a coach to "get it". I continually have found that as a major problem, a coach doing a clinic or a certification on a weekend and" hoping" they "have it" but have only confused the issues. This is what has happened with my "MID" chart.. one, two even three sessions hasn't been enough for the coach to really see the "simplicity" .. of how and why it should be used….

So, so many times the "coach" already has their own concept and interpret s (misinterprets) much of what is presented in their "mind's eye"… . I respect their trying but they need to take a deep breath and give it a chance to work… what is seen on a video at slow or even "real" time can be deceiving. I have conducted camps where the coach has "practiced" the run before they came to camp, had decided what the measurements should be… and when we started the camp with approach runs on the track his boys participated but when we moved to the runway they used there "old" numbers instead of the run that worked on the track… they never got their steps "on" the runway, refused to use the "numbers" from the track or even go back to the track and re-do from how they were running "today"… the coach felt that we had "messed" them up because the "feel" was not the same when they went to the runway…. and actually left the camp at noon.. the coach refusing to go back to the track with and work out the approach.

……again a good example of "over" or "under" thinking is the 6 step check point… (and yes I have to put this in here, because right now, right here with our USA vaulters this IS a huge part of what is missing…( I have offered to present it in person, for free!!! No takers.. ) Yes the run I teach with the "MID" as my "check point", will feel "different" because 100% of the time my run processes/training will put the athlete "closer" on the run (but farther out at the teakoff) so they can "get the feet down"/correct posture/higher frequency and "impulse"/plant correctly at the takeoff. 90% of those that have looked at the chart still may continue to misunderstand the concept, most that use it "over use or use it the wrong way, which makes it less valid.

You need to see it in person… so I can show and explain the concept……,

Where we are today….. coaching and jumping…

Right up front… I see 90 % of our pole vault coaches ignoring or not even being aware of…
Principal number one…
AND Principle number two..progression/ progressive overload
AND Principle number three…..the Principle of Specificity …


Like most coaches, I have developed my own "method" (of course based on the knowledge and experience of the many coaches and athletes that came before me) of introducing the event for beginners all the way (same fundamentals) up to world class. This teaching approach has produced 7 feet or higher for 9th grade beginner girls and 9 feet plus for 9th grade beginners boys. Each athlete has to commit to 4 to 6 weeks without missing a scheduled "step" in the process. 100's have reached those standards.

Here is an "outline" of how it is done and of course in my opinion how it should and can be done with all pole vaulters boy, girl, man or women….

"The Direct Approach to Pole Vaulting"…

Leo's 5 days to 9 feet. Leo.. 5-6/135 .. CC, 2 mile and 800m runner he did play on the 9th grade basketball team.

Day One Monday…. One hour..

1. Introduce the pole carry and the "run with the pole on the track"… 20 yd runs, carry, drop and plant.. show him how to run with the feet "underneath the body… Distance runners will run 'flat" footed "naturally" so you need to show him how it's done correctly… ie.. drills similar to the 20/20 drill that has been discussed here, I think many times.

2. Grass "vault" holding just a little above "arms reach" on the pole.

3. Sand vault… grip about one foot above reach…. from 2 step "spot" by the coach to eventually 6 steps with a "goal" grip of, first day of 9 feet.

4. Go back to the track and finishes with pole runs.. set up 12 steps.. run these steps, trying to get more comfortable carrying the pole and emphasizing "quick" feet, "chop"/piston action or 20/20 drill action over the last six steps.

Day Two Wednesday…

1. Warm-up.. form run (some people call these high knees.. BUTT do not run them with high knees.. that tends to make the runner "sit" and that is incorrect…), skips, butt kicks without the pole and with the pole. 10 cones set equally apart on the track.. one lane 3 feet, lane two 4 feet, lane three 5 feet. Two times each lane.. working on frequency, posture, pole carry, rhythm.
2. 12 step Approach Runs on the track… place cones equal distance apart for the last 6 steps to the takeoff.. with two cones to plant into as the "imaginary" box..
Place 6 cones in the lane next to your "natural" run and shorten each step by 2 inches.. that will make the takeoff one foot closer to the "MID"
3. Sand Pit… working your way back to 6 steps and a nine plus grip… before the 9th grade boy is allowed to go to the pit he must have a grip of 10-6 in the sand pit and land safely. (this is your first MUST as a coach.
4. Go back to the track and repeat the pole runs that are still marked from the warm-up before…
5. Go to the play ground bars and show him how to swing upside down… spot and help push the hips up.

Day Three Saturday….

1. Warm-up.. form run (some people call these high knees.. BUTT do not run them with high knees..(do not "gallop") that tends to make the runner "sit" and that is incorrect…), skips, butt kicks without the pole and all these with the pole. 10 cones set equally apart on the track.. one lane 3 feet, lane two 4 feet, lane three 5 feet. Two times each lane.. working on frequency, posture, pole carry, rhythm. There is a short "run-in" to those 10 equally spaced cones.
2. 12 step Approach Runs on the track… place cones equal distance apart for the last 6 steps to the takeoff.. with two cones to plant into as the "imaginary" box..
Place 6 cones in the lane next to your "natural" run and shorten each step by 2 inches.. that will make the takeoff one foot closer to the "MID"
3. Sand Pit… working your way back to 6 steps and a nine plus grip… before the 9th grade boy is allowed to go to the pit he must have a grip of 10-6 in the sand pit and land safely. (this is your first MUST as a coach.
4. Go back to the track and repeat the pole runs that are still marked from the warm-up before…
5. Go to the play ground bars and show him how to swing upside down… spot and help push the hips up.
6. Brought a rope that we hung over the football goal post and took a pole vault grip… top grip at stretched arm reach and left/bottom hand 18/20 inches lower.. Tried to swing upside down, in one motion… feet around the rope close to where it was tied over the goal post…

Day Four Monday…………..

1. Warm-up.. form run (some people call these high knees.. BUTT do not run the "form run" with high knees..do not "gallop"… that tends to make the runner "sit" and that is incorrect), skips, butt kicks without the pole and all these with the pole.

2. Four times 12 step approach run on the track… the six step "MID" is around 37/38 feet.. and he is "forced" to chop the last six steps….
3. Sand Pit… working your way back to 6 steps and a nine plus grip… before the 9th grade boy is allowed to go to the pit he must have a grip of 10-6 in the sand pit and land safely. (this is your first MUST as a coach. The sand pit session was excellent and short.
4. Rain was c0ming so we went to the "real" pole vault pit. I walked him through some four step plants pushing up on the takeoff toe with the pole extended as high as he could reach… planting into the box…
5. Next I did what I call 20, 30, 40…. This is run, plant and "ride the pole" into the pit from 20 feet from the box, 30 and 40 feet. I use the same process and thinking that we used in the sand pit.
Start the run, Based on the grip from the sand pit (?10-6) we will start low, 9 to 9-6?,………. 20 feet from the box… 20 feet gives him room for 4 quick steps and a takeoff. A 9-6 grip is approximately a seven (7) foot takeoff.. so Leo will take four steps (4 steps not 4 lefts) of three feet.ish.. each.. … Plant and swing into the pit..
Gradually move the grip up if possible, 4" at the time if the pole speed to vertical is good...
Take 2, 3 or 4….
Then move back to 30 feet and keep the same ending grip… he will take 6 steps (NOT 6 lefts) planted and swung into the pit… I started to move his step out a little so he didn't "chop" so much.. one, two, then three feet…. He took a few and I coached run, plant.. swing into the pit.. no inversion.. he landed on his feet, like in the sand pit, no turn… landing on the feet is only "ok" if the pit has no cracks/seems to sprain an ankle… he had worked his grip back to 10-6ish in just a few jumps…
I moved him back to 40 and the first try was to close on the run… I moved him to 43.. he planted and swung but was still a little close… move his step to 44 (this is a 8 step/4 left run)… put a bungee at 7-6ish..standards at 32/80… he ran, planted and swung over the bungee………..we stopped the rain came………..


Day Five Wednesday…………..

Same as Monday but went through the first three exercises quickly…

1. Warm-up.. form run (some people call these high knees.. BUTT do not run the "form run" with high knees..do not "gallop"… that tends to make the runner "sit" and that is incorrect), skips, butt kicks without the pole and all these with the pole.
2. Four times 12 step approach run on the track… the six step "MID" is around 37/38 feet.. and he is "forced" to chop the last six steps….
3. Sand Pit… working your way back to 6 steps and a nine plus grip… before the 9th grade boy is allowed to go to the pit he must have a grip of 10-6 in the sand pit and land safely. (this is your first MUST as a coach. The sand pit session was excellent and short.
4. Went to the PV pit… a few walking plants and I moved him to 44 feet (8 step/4 left run)… 2/3 test runs, his first two steps were 6-6ish feet.. his "mid" 36/37……. Bungee up @ 7-6 …he cleared… up 8-6 cleared better run (confidence) but was too close… moved to 45.. cleared..
Decided to move him back two steps.. went to 53 feet/10 steps/5 lefts.... continued to move him back a little and raise the grip a little at the time.… I think his ending run was 54ish… 36/37 mid.. 11-4 grip cleared a bungee at 9-4ish…….

I was not able to go back to practice because of other work…. A week later I had a chance to go to a meet he was competing in… his coach didn't want him to jump but to run the 2 mile and 800…. I was still out of town and he didn't practice PV will I was gone.. almost three weeks after our last practice his coach put him in a 9th grade meet.. I told him to use the numbers and pole we used in the last practice.. we had entered (logged) them into his "smart' phone from that last practice day weeks before..

He jumped 9 feet, tied for first and lost in a jump off…

The beginning girls do the same process… BUTT… their "standard for the sand pit is 9 to
9-6… and when we move from the sand to the PV pit.. it is all done with the sandpit grip and run …………

Success………….


In the early beginner stages "less is more"…. …
1. I do Sand Vaulting… (Becca and others have mentioned this and there is a good video of Isi doing the drill with a 6 step/3 left run in)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efx7sz39VFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81rASVhF ... re=related


2. turning upside down on a playground high bar… rings or rope

3. AND the one I do first and maybe the most is Approach runs on the track… I do then in "parts" , then as a "whole"…back to parts and then as a whole again..
a. part one "grip and pole carry position"..
b. acceleration phase.. the part of the run from the first step to the six step check point.
c. the "frequency"/equal step phase of the last six steps.
d. the correct plant and "impulse" of the plant at the end of the six step phase.
Everything id progressive and proportionate.. based generally on what you see on the six step "MID" chart….
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
After this "entry level" of learning I will add two major things

1. pop-ups (see youtube vid- …………………..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgYQkQNw ... e=youtu.be

I do add a slight "wrap"/turn as the vaulter reaches vertical and "aligns" with the pole…

This Bubka vid looks to be about a 12ft/3.65 grip… 6 steps that start at approx.. 40ft/12.20m…

2. sliding box plants with a run-in.. 2 step, 4 step, 6 step and all they way back to full run…

note: there are 100's of ways to training and work on the RUN-PLANT-SWING that will accomplish exactly what I teach with the "few" drills/exercises… just make sure the drill you use works with the physics of the event.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Now principle number one….. !!!???
Getting the pole to vertical IS principle number one

You must learn to POLE vault not pole jump..

Everything (technical-physical) you do from day one in the vault is to get the "pole to vertical" with as high of a grip as possible.. period-exclamation mark!!!!

The sand pit introduction is all about learning how to "ride" the pole… ride the pole with your main "goal" of getting the pole to vertical.. WITHOUT THE HIPS PASSING THE POLE……

This is the first "principle" before straight & high reached top plant arm, before "free' takeoff, before bending the pole, before "getting vertical" and "inverting"..

The vault is Run – Plant - Swing… that is it…

On a full vault the hips will not start to get above the grip on the swing until the jumper is gripping approximately 12 feet and jumping 11-6/12 feet.

A slight "punch" with the ball of the bottom hand at plant can help you plant, takeoff and transfer onto the pole better.. in Olympic level technical terms this is the "action" of moving both hands, top and bottom grip as straight as possible high above the head…

Every beginning vault prospect that should continue to vault should be capable of reaching the sand pit numbers, safely before moving to the real pit… teaching should never start in the real pit. This causes two major issues.. one, most times the vault will "forget" about the poles (mostly girls) and swing by the pole to land softly on the pit. Two, thinking or having a bar/bungee up in the pit totally changes the athletes "thinking" and they will stop hearing what is attempting to be taught.

Sand pit without and with a bungee stretched between two hurdles is the only way to go for best results…

Boys sandpit goal… 10-6 to 11-0 feet grip…stay behind the pole and land safely/comfortably…
Girls sandpit goal…. 9-6 to 10-0 feet grip… stay behind the pole and land safely/comfortably…


The kicker………

The "MID" six stride chart that I have tried to pass on IS the DATA.. it is the "progressions" and the numbers tool for a coach… IF of course you know why and how to use the information…

The chart It gives the average jump height based on hand grip….
The average takeoff point based on grip/reach height……..
The correct run/run distance from the "MID" check point based on speed, hand grip and jump height (Hand grip is determined by speed and plant technique.)

There is my "BOOK" without the details….

Still feel it is too much to post and for the coach not to see in person and in action..

remember........

RUN-PLANT-SWING
Dj
http://www.oneapproachrun.com

reggiepv
PV Wannabe
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:07 am
Expertise: Vaulted in MS,HS,College,Club,Masters, Coach, Parent
Lifetime Best: 15' (4.57)
Favorite Vaulter: Jenn Suhr
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby reggiepv » Thu May 03, 2012 11:45 am

I don't think raising opening heights will increase safety. Having less wait between the first vaulters and the last vaulters would definitely increase safety. A greater willingness to divide vaulters into flights could achieve this goal. (and my favorite way to choose flights, is to set starting heights for flights, and let vaulters choose their own flight).

On the subject though. In our area we'll start girls at 6 and boys at 7 sometimes, and 90% of the girls are out by the 4th or 5th height (7'6" or 8'0"), while the boys get spread out and 80% are passing the first 4 or 5 heights. I think it would be fairer to girls to start them lower and give them a chance to go through a few heights.

dj
PV Psycho
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby dj » Fri May 04, 2012 10:12 am

PV Safety 2…

good morning,

i hope everyone copied and printed the "The Direct Approach to Pole Vaulting"…
Follow it … please..

this is the minimum process a coach or beginning jumper should take. if you were not started this way i urge you to do this in the off season. You don't need a pit.. just the pole, track, LJ pit and playground bars... and some cones...

what we are doing with LOW starting heights is letting the coaches enter athletes in the meet WITHOUT ANY PRACTICE OR COACHING.

all nine schools, here in my area, have done this at every first year meet i have gone to in the six years i have been here. Only a few schools have a vault coach. i try and help run the event off and the head coach without a coach usually asks me to "coach his kids"... (who have NEVER tried the event).

Q. Does gymnastics "change" the apparatuses' ???!!!!! Does gymnastics require skill levels to continue to move on? If the gymnasts can't "get over" the horse or swing around the parrell bars are they in the meet?

as much as i love the event i quit going to meets and helping with the vault. The several occasions where I told the coach "No" he put them in anyway, on several occasions where they were vaulting very "unsafe", holding high and landing on the grass in front of the pit or girls that were so afraid and had no "concept, run fast… try to stop, slide into the box or jump off the ground (not vault) throw the pole and at least land on their butt on the pit..

I can give you a thousand IE's and you can too.

Stop the insanity… use some logic…we eliminate student s that should not enter the event without "minimum" standards and preparations….

Did we have deaths before fiberglass??? What has changed… we had ninth grade boys jumping 9 feet on steel, 12 feet as seniors!!!

Nine feet for 9th grade boys is minimum…….. that means all this boy has to do is grip 10-6 (go through the 5 day training progression and meet the sand pit standard) with the 8" in the box and say a 7 foot reach that would only mean that his feet would "maybe" be 3 feet from the ground if he missed up and couldn't swing correctly.

Do you get what I'm saying with that? If your feet are only 3 feet from the sand in the sand pit you should land safe… while you are learning the event.

For girls a 7 foot vault opening height standard would mean a 9-6 grip… a 9-6 grip with a 6-6/7-0 reach would mean your feet 3 feet above the sand for swing drills to meet the "grip" standard.

Two ways to increase safety…

1. RAISE THE OPENING HEIGHT STANDARDS RIGHT NOW!!!

for beginner boys and girls AND for College boys and girls… college opening heights… 12 feet boys 10 feet girls..


2. correct the OVERSTRIDING on the run. NOW!!

If you don't know how my "blog" should be up in a day or two… http://www.oneapproachrun.com

Force the athlete with the "desire" to develop the physical and mental skills to jump safely.

Logic… if you want a 4.0+ in high school what do you have to do? Either develop the skills or "cheat"..

Right now we allowing coaches to "cheat" and it's has, and will continue to cause injury and death.


dj

dj
PV Psycho
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
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Re: Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

Unread postby dj » Sat May 05, 2012 12:42 am

We don't need two threads about this, and I don't know anyone else who agrees with DJ that forcing opening heights to be higher will make the event safer. You can discuss this issue here: http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtop ... 28&t=23451


i don't mind this being in one thread.... and everyone else "feeling" that "open heights" are not and issue...

but how right has "everyone else" been!!!

your "inviting" athletes in with NO preparation... and inviting coaches to not coach and just throw athletes in to get points...

here i must inject the definition of insanity…you know what it is:
xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

to reason for high number of injuries...1. setting low standards with a huge misconception of the vent and 2 stretched steps...

not "safety" equipment... and there are far more coaches that don't want to deal with the vault but they will take the points of someone jumping 6 feet!!!

set the bar low and the athlete is sure to trip on it….

dj

PS.. let me add a footnote and a question..

first.. the opening height for my college conference championship.. prelim vault was 12 feet. NAIA college conference in Arkansas my freshman year in 1965!!!!!

Q. when was what is considered the first death of the modern, fiberglass era of pole vault or when does JJ's data start?…


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