pole breaks

A forum to discuss everything to do with pole vaulting equipment: poles, pits, spikes, etc.

Moderator: Barto

User avatar
jmayesvaultmom
PV Follower
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 10:38 am
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Contact:

Post

Unread postby jmayesvaultmom » Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:06 am

"C. Another post talks about the weight rule-forcing athletes to vomit or go on drastic weight reducing diets?"

It doesn't force them too....it just opens that door for that possibility because they want to vault or it may be the trigger for anorexia or bulemia! If you don't think this happens with some girls, maybe you don't have a daughter or understand about some adolescent girl's minds? Everything is about how they look and their weight with a large percentage of them! I watched a friend of my oldest daughter's-- after being told by guys that she was "buff" -- quit eating at Christmas time in 9th grade. She was a cheerleader, former gymnast, and weighed about 125 and was 5'4". By February, she was already at Children's hospital seeing a heart specialist. The following year for 10th grade, she was so weak and weighed 85 pounds -- she could not attend regular classes because she could not climb the three flights of stairs at our high school. She had also had to be hospitalized in a facility that was $20,000 a month 2 hours away and had to get back UP to 85 pounds to go home! This was all triggered by a comment by guys -- not that it was their fault. I know you don't hear about guys being anorexic...but if you think it only happens with a few isolated girls, you're wrong. The next year 2 more of her friends...also athletes....would vomit up their food after meals. That is how they lost weight. This is a very big problem with adolescent girls -- and the three we have had personal experience with were all athletes. And these girls didn't even have a weight rule to worry about! :dazed:

Why do think Kris made a rule in his club about eating disorders?
That's Jodie!!

A scripture that makes me think of all you girls and guys pole vaulting....

Habakkuk 3:19
The Sovereign LORD is my strength;
he makes my feet like the feet of a deer,
he enables me to go on the heights.

User avatar
~jj~
PV Whiz
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: atascadero, ca
Contact:

astm info

Unread postby ~jj~ » Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:18 pm

The eating disorder thing is something I had failed to consider. Jodi, Thanks so much for pointing it out to me. Although we have not had the problem here at sjvsc, I know of the problem, and seen it occasionally in distance runners and others in the general population.
I can certianly see how it could become a vaulter problem. When I first heard of weigh-in's.... I thought wow! Pole vaulting is going to get like wrestling. It reminded me of living in Mary Burke hall at U. Alabama in the '70's. After dinner each night we would hear the toilets all flushing on the floor above us, always around 7pm. So one night we went up to investigate. It was the wrestlers, they were throwing-up dinner. Each night they would gorge themselves in the dinning hall....and then head up stairs for a "group puke" (their name for it).
A standard, if properly written, can help make the weight rule less prohibitive, and more user friendly. The prupose of a standard is to protect the consumer. I feel so strongly about this a National Safety Chair, that I have dedicated large portions of my time and energy for the purpose of standardization over the past few years.
A large number of people have helped me in this work. However, most of them prefer to remain annonyous. They want nothing from it. They simply want a safer more cost efficent PV world.
When the work is finished and the standard is opperational all consumers and manufactures will benifit.
This fall we will begin the process of standarization of poles. We have done our home work! The system we have in mind has been worked and reworked, and reworked! We thought we had the soloution when we finished the "Best Flex" project in 1998. But upon further review, Best flex was only a partial soloution. There were factors and variables that we were unable to study at that time. The technology was simply not avaliable. We did not feel we could go to ASTM with the data and necessary resources for approval. So about a year ago when the landing pit project was coming to an end we began serious preperations for the pole standardization.
Standardization must get throught the ASTM or it will not be acceptable to the HS federation, or the IAAF, or the NCAA.
Have you looked at the ASTM web site? www.astm.org click around a little
bit and read the mission statement, and the about astm on the info page.....
This fall's ASTM meetings will run all week in Tampa, Florida. Many
different groups will meet and work on setting up or revising standards for
all kinds of differt products. For instance the helmet commitee, which I'm
not a part of, but I always sit I on their meetings and give input, if asked
for, will have representatives from approximalty 10 manufactures, that
represent helmets for all kinds of uses.
The "American Society for Testing Materials" is a non-partisiam organiation
that provides the platform for companies and other
interested parties to work on setting standards for all kinds of commerical
products.
Typically the meetings are attended by representatives of companies who make products (for which standards are being developed), lawyers, doctors,
special interest groups, government agencies, and insurance agencies.
Here is a agenda for this falls meetings. We have invitited approximatly 200 people to take part. Probably only 20 or so will show up for the pole vault stuff.
In general, it is my opinion, that most coaches and vaulters, would love to see standardization become reality.

~jan~

1000 to 1015 Introductions and Misc. Admin.

1015 to 1030 Box Collars

1030 to 1045 Base Pads

1045 to 1100 Pit Testing

1100 to 1130 Pole Test Method

1130 to 1200 Pole Stress Test Method

1200 to 1300 Lunch

1300 to 1430 Pole Test Specification

1430 to 1500 Pole Stress Test Specification

1500 Adjournment

1800 Social

User avatar
lonestar
PV Lover
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:23 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Contact:

Re: WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO IDIOT PROOF THE EVENT

Unread postby lonestar » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:05 pm

[quote="ESSX"]It was late last night when I posted it and Earl Bell and I had been working on poles at the factory all day so I was tired.
[size=100]What I mean by the above comment or no comment whatever you wish to call it is this:

IN one post we have a rumor that;


[color=blue][b]A. “ Manufacturers are conspiring to market and hype you to shorter poles, as they make more profit.â€Â
Any scientist who can't explain to an eight-year-old what he is doing is a charlatan. K Vonnegut

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO IDIOT PROOF THE EVENT

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Oct 15, 2003 6:13 pm

lonestar wrote:As for the additional length being built, there are certain companies building 12'4's, 13'3's, 13'9's, 14'3's, 14'9's, 15'3's in place of 12'0's, 13'0's, 13'6's, 14'0's, 14'6's, and 15'0's. Are they doing it so that a person can still hold 15'0 on a 15'0 pole? I guess only those manufacturers know. No one accused you of doing that Bruce. Do you build those lengths, and if so, why?


No no no that has nothing to do with label placement. First of all, I don't think the max grip height label rule was even in place until 1995, and those have been the pole lengths for certain manufacturers for longer than that. It has to do with metric! Check the metric equivalent of those heights. I didn't check 12'4", but I was just out on the track looking at a standard, and 13'3" through 15'3" match up very closely to a nice metric number.

From what I hear about Altius, the history there is that Paul Richards used to sell a lot of Skypoles over in Europe (a long time ago) and those were the lengths he used because of the whole metric thing.

Now why someone would give their poles a nice even metric length, and then flex them in inches is beyond me :P

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO IDIOT PROOF THE EVENT

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Oct 15, 2003 6:13 pm

lonestar wrote:Once again I'm sure I'll be largely ignored when I say "Pass a Preferred Landing Zone 3 Strikes Rule and throw the rest of these bull$#!^ rules out!"


The more I think about it, the more I agree with you there :confused: :dazed:

User avatar
Bruce Caldwell
PV Enthusiast
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:19 pm
Expertise: It is all about Pole Vaulting. I even catch the competitors poles!
Lifetime Best: 15'8"
Favorite Vaulter: Kjell Issakson, Jan Johnson
Location: DFW TEXAS
Contact:

lone star

Unread postby Bruce Caldwell » Wed Oct 15, 2003 6:38 pm

Once again I'm sure I'll be largely ignored when I say "Pass a Preferred Landing Zone 3 Strikes Rule and throw the rest of these bull$#!^ rules out!"


Oh I know no one was directing it at us. We are not doing such a thing. Never thought for a moment that it was directed to us. We thought it was humorus comments but the more you think about it the 3 strikes rule the more it makes sense. Jan reconsider this OK
Last edited by Bruce Caldwell on Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
I love the PV, it is in my DNA

User avatar
~jj~
PV Whiz
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: atascadero, ca
Contact:

How rules get made

Unread postby ~jj~ » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:59 pm

I do not write the rules for pole vaulting. That is up to the NCAA, the IAAF and the NHSF rules committees. I like anyone else, can only write recomendations for changes. :confused:
~jj~

User avatar
lonestar
PV Lover
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:23 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Contact:

Re: WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO IDIOT PROOF THE EVENT

Unread postby lonestar » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:48 pm

rainbowgirl28 wrote:No no no that has nothing to do with label placement. First of all, I don't think the max grip height label rule was even in place until 1995, and those have been the pole lengths for certain manufacturers for longer than that. It has to do with metric! Check the metric equivalent of those heights. I didn't check 12'4", but I was just out on the track looking at a standard, and 13'3" through 15'3" match up very closely to a nice metric number.

From what I hear about Altius, the history there is that Paul Richards used to sell a lot of Skypoles over in Europe (a long time ago) and those were the lengths he used because of the whole metric thing.

Now why someone would give their poles a nice even metric length, and then flex them in inches is beyond me :P


12'4 ~ 3.75m
12'9 ~ 3.90m
13'3 ~ 4.05m
13'9 ~ 4.20m
14'3 ~ 4.35m
14'9 ~ 4.50m
15'3 ~ 4.65m

Makes sense - even though those aren't exact metric equivalents, they're all within an inch. Why flex in inches though? :confused:
Any scientist who can't explain to an eight-year-old what he is doing is a charlatan. K Vonnegut

VTechVaulter
PV Lover
Posts: 1312
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:00 pm
Expertise: Current Elite Vaulter, College Volunteer Coach, HUGE FAN

WOW

Unread postby VTechVaulter » Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:30 pm

well, looks like i started a good one hear. I just wanted to hear about pole breaks.

Anyway, im gonna go back to the point that its merely ignorance that is dangerous, not the sport. Look at nearly any sky systems video, and you see video of guys jumped damn high into sawdust pits and foam piles. Reasoning - they knew how to vault. It scares me to go watch hs meets and see some kid landing runway side, and having his coach tell him to raise his grip to make pole softer. WRONG ANSWER. Grip heights get the best of everyone though, even very good vaulters. People equate High grip with High vault. My freshman year at college i held at 15'7 and jumped 16'5. This past year, after i messed my hand up with a broken pole, i had some grip heigh issues and only held at 14'9 (with lots less pole bend and no locked left arm) but jumped 16'11 because i simply learned how to vault better. Yes pros hold very high, but they also bring the knowledge (and runway speed :P ) to allow them to do so. If we had enough coaches to teach basics, all this pole grip and weight would be non issue.
Brian Mondschein
Philadelphia Jumps Club, Coach and Co-Founder
www.phillyjumpsclub.com

User avatar
~jj~
PV Whiz
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: atascadero, ca
Contact:

breaks

Unread postby ~jj~ » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:00 pm

I broke 4 poles in my career. One in HS was a thermoflex, two in college were black cats, and one after college was a green cat.
Every time I got banged up.
Nice post little M. Your quite the chat board man.
All hail VA Tech.
~jan~

VTechVaulter
PV Lover
Posts: 1312
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:00 pm
Expertise: Current Elite Vaulter, College Volunteer Coach, HUGE FAN

Unread postby VTechVaulter » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:46 pm

Broke 3 poles thus far

1 yellow cat (hanging plant drill OOPS) scared the hs football team pretty good

2 Carbons

def interested in comin out to the winter camps. Whats the date on that?
Brian Mondschein
Philadelphia Jumps Club, Coach and Co-Founder
www.phillyjumpsclub.com

User avatar
SlickVT
PV Follower
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:06 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, Post-Collegiate Vaulter, College Coach, High School Coach
Location: Blacksburg VA

Breakage

Unread postby SlickVT » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:52 am

I'm a sophomore at VT with the tall kid that keeps posting on here. Wussie... Anyway, I have broken 8 poles in my life. 2 were plain jane Pacers, 1 was a spirit, and 5 were pacer carbons. Only injury I got was a badass welt on my back with break #6 (Carbon). All were legal weight limits. Most of the time the jumps were really good for me, just overloaded the pole.

P.S. I landed way deep in the pit every time but my first time breaking a pole.
P.P.S. It will be a while until I break another pole, huh.

VT VAULT 2K4
Vertical Technique Pole Vault Club
Blacksburg, Virginia
verticaltechnique.com


Return to “Pole Vault - Equipment”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests