Steve Hooker

News about pole vault competitions that occur outside the US and international pole vaulters.
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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby vaultwest » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:02 pm

Oh dj, I knew I could count on you, you are such a broken record. Of course a proper run is vital to success in the vault but many different factors can harm an athletes run. A bit unusual for someone of Hookers skill level to fall so far. Just saying if it ain't broke don't fix it and before he changed poles from what I hear was pressure from his coach he was jumping pretty well and while I am aware of his injury problems he seems to have recovered from those problems. He has the same coach and upgraded facilities, I wonder why he has not only fallen out of the 19' club but runs through on most of his attempts. food for thought.
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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby kcvault » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:47 pm

I once tried to switch from carbon poles to spirit due to lack of poles. From a short run it worked just fine, but from a long run I ran through every time. Tried it for about 6 months when I put carbons back in my hands I was able to take of again. Since the weight of the two different brands is so much different it throws off your pole run, pole drop, carry, and plant. The pole drop needs to be more consistent with spirits because the weight difference. So though I agree that if hooker became more consistent it would not matter, I also think switching pole brads probable played a bigger part in he inconsistency then would be expected.

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby dj » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:47 pm

hye

sounds like what your saying is the weight of the pole ends up "slowing" the run slightly? which would mean he needs to move in (closer "MID"-six step), which to do and know this he needs to be "catching" a six step "MID"...

the weight would be the only factor and if the "pole drop" is correct.. ie free pole drop... the weight would/should have little effect. That is the whole premise of a free pole drop.

By the way Mike Cotton, University of Florida used a "free" pole drop in the late '70's……..

after saying all that... it still comes down to the run.. and the ONLY way to know is to monitor/check/compare…


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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby dj » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:51 pm

PS

the only reason a vaulter will not/cannot take a vault up is his/her body tells them
that they WILL NOT/CANNOT move the pole safely to vertical with the grip they are holding.

and that goes to the speed and accuracy of the run.

i believe Hooker had some good jumps before this... if they knew the "numbers" (grip-MID-Speed) from those jumps all they need to do is work from those proportions up.....

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby achtungpv » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:45 pm

Hooker has always had a run through problem. Before he went on his streak of great vaulting from '05 - '10, he was at a point where he couldn't take off from 2 steps. It seems like it's a constant struggle he's always dealt with but kept it under control for a while. It's not a pole brand problem.
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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby golfdane » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:44 am

dj wrote:hye

sounds like what your saying is the weight of the pole ends up "slowing" the run slightly? which would mean he needs to move in (closer "MID"-six step), which to do and know this he needs to be "catching" a six step "MID"...

the weight would be the only factor and if the "pole drop" is correct.. ie free pole drop... the weight would/should have little effect. That is the whole premise of a free pole drop.

By the way Mike Cotton, University of Florida used a "free" pole drop in the late '70's……..

after saying all that... it still comes down to the run.. and the ONLY way to know is to monitor/check/compare…


dj


One of the issues with carbon poles is, that the lower weight allows you to make small mistakes in the pole drop, without getting severely punished. If these "mistakes" are deeply ingrained, will the heavier Spirit pole cause a slightly leaned back posture in the late phase of the run up, if pole is dropped prematurely (might lead to stretching).
He's at least 1½-2 feet under in his last left-foot strike on both attempts, and he doesn't seem to have moved his starting point. There seems to be a tapemarker, that could be around 18m. He seems to be a foot inside that, I think.

In regards to his Red Bull training facility: He said in an interview, that they went right back to basics. IMHO, jumping from raised runways, ramps, with load cells and so on, is anything but "back to basics". If the cause is "paralysis by analysis", will all this input only zark up things. Nothing on the ordinary tracksurface, will feel like his more than 1000 jumps he made in this facility.

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby dj » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:20 pm

good morning

thanks for the input golfdane...

typically on a "run through" the vaulter will "step over" the takeoff.. the reason for that is stretching.

I also realize that many coaches and athletes feel that a 18 meter "MID" six step for men and a 16 meter "MID" for women is "ok".

But this puts us right back to the wrong "physics".

An 18 meter "MID" must have a 10 MPS speed with it or you are stretching, meaning increased ground time. On all the jumps I have checked on Bubka (5.95 plus)from the data his "Mid" was in the 17.10 to 17.50 range and the speeds were 9.5MPS to 9.7MPS. The info from OVER THE BAR by
V. MANSVETOV, 1983 states this about Bubka at the world champs.

OVER THE BAR by
V. MANSVETOV, 1983

"On the last 15M segment before the take-off, speed
achieves 9.5m/sec. In the last 6 steps (exclusive of the
pre-take-off), the athlete achieves a relatively level tempo.

The pre-take-off stride is executed very quickly and is
gathered (shortened). Time of support lasts all of 0.082 sec.
With this, the jumper achieves a significant increase in tempo
on the last stride, 10.37m/sec. Such an increase in tempo is
characteristic of record-setting jumpers. (V. Polyakov, 5.81m)"


A 16 meter mark would need 8.7MPS speed to be close to correct. Anything slower would be slightly stretched steps.

I have watched these marks in the pole vault and the long jump, based on the "phyics" of speed, now for 40 years. As I have said the biggest issue we have today is a "stretched" run.

When the jumpers steps are closer than "normal" for them, they have had better posture, pole drop, higher stride frequency, better plants and takeoffs and all the things we are trying to coach.

There has been a "down side" to moving the step in! first the jumper is not ready for it and continues to stretch and many time step under and get ripped. Second when they do it correctly in the meet they usually blow through the pole. The "down" to that is they go to a bigger pole, go back to the old run (stretched) and can't move the pole to vertical.

So.. what I have been trying to explain is something the coach and athlete can "monitor" with their head screwed on correctly and they can find where the best six step "MID" is for them to run with the right posture, rhythm, correct pole drop, nice aggressive plant and takeoff and for their grip/jump level.

that "best" should only change when the speed is different which would mean a grip adjustment and a "MID" adjustment accordingly.

That "best" is going to be somewhere close to the chart numbers, grip to MID to speed.
Last edited by dj on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby fishman4god » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:13 pm

Well the numbers do line up very closely. I have been coaching and jumping acording tothe six-step mid chart and nay sayers aside .......................the numbers work pretty much every time, and confidence goes up, and virtually zero failure to launch scenarios are the result. I think the science is sound but DJ, I do not think everyone else buys it. I think there is alot of merit to your chart but it is not the only factor....as you know. Steve has got some other issues beyond his run, but time will tell for sure.

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby dj » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:15 am

good morning,

[quote]Steve has got some other issues beyond his run...[/quote]

personally i feel any "issue" he has IS because of the run..(and 100's of other vaulters as well)

but at any rate my point is and always has been.. fix the run! and then go on to any other issues you need to address.

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby wurster490 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:05 pm

Hey DJ, I have had my share of mental problems in the past as far as planting the pole..and it doesn't usually have to do with the run, in fact, where Steve is right now, he is not even starting his run thinking that he can plant the pole. When an athlete can't plant the pole in a practice after having jumped fine in the previous practice or competition then maybe it can be pointed to the run. But when the athlete has been struggling for a year to plant the pole...even from 2 steps, it is more of a mental problem. In 2008 I broke my ankle in a competition. A year after that, when I was mostly healed and training was going great I sprained my ankle taking off under. Following that for three years I had terrible mental problems on and off. This involved being deathly afraid of running down the runway, even from 3 lefts sometimes. There were times when I was so afraid I couldn't even pick up my pole to start running. Thankfully this problem is in my past, but Steve had this same problem back years ago before he rose to the top following a crash that put him in the hospital. I believe he spent a year unable to plant the pole. We are strong, but unfortunately when the brain is not on board the amount of training, weights...and everything else doesn't really matter. I am sure that his strides are probably too long, but it is what always worked for him in the past. Does he need to change things up now, maybe, but maybe that will make him feel more insecure. When things line up in his brain again he will be the same vaulter he was in 2008/09, until then it's going to be a bumpy ride.

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:38 pm

Early reports are that Hooker jumped 572 in a meet today.

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Re: Steve Hooker

Unread postby fishman4god » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:42 am

Sweet, good for Steve!


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