NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby PVJunkie » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:05 am

rainbowgirl28 wrote:PVJunkie just to clarify, the SafetyMax box collar won't meet the standard even if tested, or it just hasn't been tested yet to confirm whether or not it meets the standard?



NO, to date there is not a box collar sold that will meet the standard BUT if you look at the ASTM you will see the profile/footprint is very similar to the SafetyMax collar. So, as far as its impact on the event there are a lot of them out there in use. The reason no collar to date will meet the standard is because of whats INSIDE. The GMax and HIC rating is what needs to be addressed in the SafetyMax insert.

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby Getvertical_PV » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:54 am

I feel it is important to emphasize that the standard does not require the SafetyMax collar, it just happens to be the one collar on the market that is closest to meeting the standard. As decamouse has pointed out there are other was to meet the standard of Gmax and HIC ratings - those ratings along with the are of the box that must be protected are the important things to measure the collar's effectiveness against.

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:17 pm

I don't necessarily have a problem with the ASTM or the NCAA requiring this, I have a problem with the timeline. They want comment within the next week on whether or not to mandate by December a product that does not yet exist. A similar product exists, so coaches have a vague idea of what is being asked, but no idea what the cost will be. If they want to test out the product on their vaulters, their best bet is to buy a similar product currently available that won't actually meet the new rule and then buy another product in the fall or whenever they become available.

I think everything should be pushed back a year. Put the target mandatory date as December 2014. Give schools time to test the actual product and to budget for it. For big schools, an extra $500-$1000 is NBD, but for small programs it is, and you can't plan ahead when you don't know the cost.

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:36 pm

I posted this on Facebook:

Among college vaulters, we've had ONE catastrophic injury involving the box in the past nine years or so. Toby, Brad, Chelsea, those are NOT catastrophic injuries. The majority of catastrophic injures among college vaulters have not involved the box, and a good percentage of them have involved illegal pits or unpadded areas around the pit. This idea that we need to rush this through NOW is bulls***. If coaches know this is going to be a requirement, they're not all going to wait until the last minute to buy one, we'll start seeing it phased in next year, and it will give manufacturers an opportunity to get any kinks worked out with production

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby Getvertical_PV » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:12 pm

Toby was unconscious, had broken ribs, bruised internal injuries and spent a significant time in the hospital - I don't want to get caught up on definitions, but it was a serious injury. I agree that Chelsea's was not. My point was (and is) that coaching is not THE answer - it is one of the answers.

I agree with your comments regarding timeline Becca - allow it this year and require it the following year. It allows early adopters to adopt and provide feedback. I have provided this recommendation to college coaches that I know to provide this feedback to the NCAA.

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:10 pm

Serious and catastrophic injuries are not the same thing. Toby wasn't a college vaulter, he wasn't at a college meet, and I don't think he was even in this country when his accident happened. My point being is that there's not a rash of college kids dying or having catastrophic injuries in the box, so it doesn't make sense for the NCAA to rush this rule through before a product is even on the market.

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby dj » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:59 am

Box Collar….

You cannot "mandate" something in pole vaulting that will have no bearing on poor judgment, negligence or the inherent risk by the choices of the athlete or their coach/advisors.

Yes, padding around the top of the box that covers the surface and outmost edge of the box should be in place to "soften" the landing of any vaulter that has miss calculated the physics or has unintentionally preformed incorrect technique , (based on grip and pole size) that did not allow he/she to move the pole to vertical correctly.

Quite frankly we have continue to play into the selfishness of the athlete (and attorneys)that wants to "defy" the physics, or not understand the physics, and blame others for their choices.

I have been to safety meetings and read the hundreds of pages of data, I still have not seen one, not one case where a box collar (not having one installed at the facility) was the real issue!

The NCAA and others trying to "mandate" something that can't be done and that will give lawyers more ways to make money will kill our sport…

Who on here wants that!

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby Getvertical_PV » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:57 pm

I think we are arguing the same (or very similar) points, Becca. :D

1) The box area is one of the most dangerous parts of the landing system
2) The ASTM box collar standard is a good step in removing the danger
3) It is good that the NCAA wants to adopt this standard to improve safety
4) Due to the lack of an approved box collar NCAA should allow it use immediately and require it at a later time (2014?)

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby PVJunkie » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:22 am

I spoke to one of the committee members this weekend and the link you posted was for feedback from member institution coaches, administrators and he made it sound like athletes. He made it sound like input from non members was being filtered out.

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby polevaulter08nw » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:39 am

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby vcpvcoach » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:24 pm

Since this will be adopted at the high school level, how much will it cost? And, how many high school AD's will drop the vault because of the cost?

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Re: NCAA taking comments on proposed box collar rule

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:08 pm

vcpvcoach wrote:Since this will be adopted at the high school level, how much will it cost? And, how many high school AD's will drop the vault because of the cost?


The NFHS has not released any statements that I am aware of indicating if/when this particular collar will be required.

It is probably reasonable to assume they will adopt it at some point. Hopefully they give a reasonable amount of lead time for schools to budget for it.

The current SafetyMax collar is about $500, I think. I don't know if the changes they need to make to the materials will jack the price up significantly, that information has not been released to the public as far as I know.


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